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white rice · Dec 23, 2003, 11:37 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,)
haha...I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this stuff too. I think most people are. White rice, you pose a really good question about bootlegging vs. cd's....did you find an answer?-I'm curious.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I was hoping for Waychel to come up with the answer.

I'll post it if I get some free time.

Waychel · Jan 6, 2004, 02:23 am

Ack sorry o_o; I totally overlooked that.

"What I don't get is why you can be prosecuted for buying bootleg videos but not for CDs or digitally copied movies. Or is it possible, but harder to prove on the web?"

To be honest: I have no clue whether you can be or not. I am going to lean towards it being a possibility that you can, but since I personally don't know, I'm not going to say for certain either way. =/

Although, IMO, one could easily argue that they were unaware of what they were purchasing being a bootleg. One could claim that they were under the impression that it was a licensed version of the software that they were legally purchasing. Also, I'd imagine it would be fairly difficult to prove that someone had purchased illegal software in the first place.

I would have to do some research on this myself and ask around, because I haven't heard of any cases filed on the grounds of purchasing bootlegged material - only selling it. This doesn't mean that purchasing is legal either, though.

Unless you have the answer already? I'm curious myself...

Scribbler1 · Jan 7, 2004, 03:26 am

I admit, I'm a bit of a hypocrite too, but subtle interpretations of the law and morality aside, it IS stealing. Somebody made something and you didn't, And that person expects to get paid for it, simple as that.

A lot of this I believe is a simple misunderstanding of marketing (for this, I'm not including Microsoft, as I think they're just greedy) Do you know that $700 sofa you just bought is made from about 50 bucks worth of wood, cloth and metal and take less than an hour to make by minimum wage laborers? So how can they justify the cost? Because the merchants and manufaturers know that once you buy one they may never sell anything to you again. I believe the music and software industries feel the same way. Why would you buy TWO copies of Photoshop or 2 identical music CDs? They want to get you for as much as they can because they may have only one shot at you buying anything.
I like that way some shareware makers do it. Say I create a terrific digital photo program. I give it out free...but if you want the red-eye remover add-on you have to give me 10 bucks. If you can live without that feature, fine. Like the Greatful Dead. They didn't just allow recording at their concerts, they ENCOURAGED it. You used to see loads of people with microphones on poles at their shows, and these same people STILL went out and bought the albums.

Waychel · Jan 7, 2004, 10:22 pm

Recent developments with the RIAA:

US Court of Appeals finds RIAA subpoenas to be unlawful!
http://www.arstechnica.com/news/posts/1071854328.html

Two anti-trust cases pursued for price fixing - one reaches a settlement!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/32048.html
http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/default.htm

Interesting.

mikemadman · Jan 11, 2004, 07:46 pm

Here is my view on Warez:

1. If there is a demo for a game, I will try the demo before I buy, if there is no demo, I will search the internet for a warez version to try it out. If I like it, I will go buy it. Two reasons I buy the game. I want to support the game makers and second, a lot of times the multiplayer aspects usually does not work with a warez version. I refuse to buy a game twice to put it on both my computers. If they have some CD key check I will either erase the game or find a crack. I should not have to pay for the game twice.

2. I am a graphic artist/webmaster/3d modeler. There is no way in hell I would be able to afford all the software, so I pirate it. I do not do any freelance work or make any profit off my my work from the pirated software, but I would not have the job I have today if I had not pirated software becuase I never would of had enough money to learn how to use them. I know there are student discounts, but I am not a student, never was. Everything I know is self tought. In all honesty I know what I am doing is illegal but I dont feel bad about it. If I was making money from this software I would buy it.

I know I am indirectly making money from my pirated software but I had to learn somewhere. Never had the money for school.

So to sumerise: If its a game and its good buy it. If its a application and you are making money from it, buy. Otherwise pirate on.

Thats just my humble opinion.

(WaReZ hUnTeR sInCe 1991)

darwinist · Jan 12, 2004, 10:16 am

So what your saying Mikemadman is:-

It's ok to steal something you can't afford?

Oh look a brand new merc!

**Pooeypants** · Jan 13, 2004, 03:07 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (darwinist,)
So what your saying Mikemadman is:-

It's ok to steal something you can't afford?

Oh look a brand new merc!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Problem is, they don't see it as stealing because it's ineffective, immaterial (although there is a such thing as intellectual property, technically speaking that is) and because it's so damn easy, a few clicks of the button and its done...crime made easy.

View Poll Results: Is warez a positive or negative thing?
Positive	12	42.86%
Negative	3	10.71%
It's stealing, you idiot!	5	17.86%
I'm Mixed.	8	28.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote

Dec 23, 2003, 11:37 pm	#81 (permalink) (top)
white rice Igneous Magma Posts: 372	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dotComa,) haha...I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this stuff too. I think most people are. White rice, you pose a really good question about bootlegging vs. cd's....did you find an answer?-I'm curious.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I was hoping for Waychel to come up with the answer. I'll post it if I get some free time. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Jan 6, 2004, 02:23 am	#82 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Ack sorry o_o; I totally overlooked that. "What I don't get is why you can be prosecuted for buying bootleg videos but not for CDs or digitally copied movies. Or is it possible, but harder to prove on the web?" To be honest: I have no clue whether you can be or not. I am going to lean towards it being a possibility that you can, but since I personally don't know, I'm not going to say for certain either way. =/ Although, IMO, one could easily argue that they were unaware of what they were purchasing being a bootleg. One could claim that they were under the impression that it was a licensed version of the software that they were legally purchasing. Also, I'd imagine it would be fairly difficult to prove that someone had purchased illegal software in the first place. I would have to do some research on this myself and ask around, because I haven't heard of any cases filed on the grounds of purchasing bootlegged material - only selling it. This doesn't mean that purchasing is legal either, though. Unless you have the answer already? I'm curious myself... Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Jan 7, 2004, 03:26 am	#83 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	I admit, I'm a bit of a hypocrite too, but subtle interpretations of the law and morality aside, it IS stealing. Somebody made something and you didn't, And that person expects to get paid for it, simple as that. A lot of this I believe is a simple misunderstanding of marketing (for this, I'm not including Microsoft, as I think they're just greedy) Do you know that $700 sofa you just bought is made from about 50 bucks worth of wood, cloth and metal and take less than an hour to make by minimum wage laborers? So how can they justify the cost? Because the merchants and manufaturers know that once you buy one they may never sell anything to you again. I believe the music and software industries feel the same way. Why would you buy TWO copies of Photoshop or 2 identical music CDs? They want to get you for as much as they can because they may have only one shot at you buying anything. I like that way some shareware makers do it. Say I create a terrific digital photo program. I give it out free...but if you want the red-eye remover add-on you have to give me 10 bucks. If you can live without that feature, fine. Like the Greatful Dead. They didn't just allow recording at their concerts, they ENCOURAGED it. You used to see loads of people with microphones on poles at their shows, and these same people STILL went out and bought the albums. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Jan 7, 2004, 10:22 pm	#84 (permalink) (top)
Waychel Supercalifragilistic Posts: 431	Recent developments with the RIAA: US Court of Appeals finds RIAA subpoenas to be unlawful! http://www.arstechnica.com/news/posts/1071854328.html Two anti-trust cases pursued for price fixing - one reaches a settlement! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/32048.html http://www.musiccdsettlement.com/english/default.htm Interesting. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Jan 11, 2004, 07:46 pm	#85 (permalink) (top)
mikemadman Sedimentary Rock Location: SoCal Posts: 17	Here is my view on Warez: 1. If there is a demo for a game, I will try the demo before I buy, if there is no demo, I will search the internet for a warez version to try it out. If I like it, I will go buy it. Two reasons I buy the game. I want to support the game makers and second, a lot of times the multiplayer aspects usually does not work with a warez version. I refuse to buy a game twice to put it on both my computers. If they have some CD key check I will either erase the game or find a crack. I should not have to pay for the game twice. 2. I am a graphic artist/webmaster/3d modeler. There is no way in hell I would be able to afford all the software, so I pirate it. I do not do any freelance work or make any profit off my my work from the pirated software, but I would not have the job I have today if I had not pirated software becuase I never would of had enough money to learn how to use them. I know there are student discounts, but I am not a student, never was. Everything I know is self tought. In all honesty I know what I am doing is illegal but I dont feel bad about it. If I was making money from this software I would buy it. I know I am indirectly making money from my pirated software but I had to learn somewhere. Never had the money for school. So to sumerise: If its a game and its good buy it. If its a application and you are making money from it, buy. Otherwise pirate on. Thats just my humble opinion. (WaReZ hUnTeR sInCe 1991) Yes, I know I don't know how to spell. What can I say, I was born in the era of spellcheckers.

Jan 12, 2004, 10:16 am	#86 (permalink) (top)
darwinist Igneous Magma Location: Netherlands Posts: 200	So what your saying Mikemadman is:- It's ok to steal something you can't afford? Oh look a brand new merc! What goes 'up', must come 'down', unless it goes around and round.

Jan 13, 2004, 03:07 pm	#87 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,546	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (darwinist,) So what your saying Mikemadman is:- It's ok to steal something you can't afford? Oh look a brand new merc!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Problem is, they don't see it as stealing because it's ineffective, immaterial (although there is a such thing as intellectual property, technically speaking that is) and because it's so damn easy, a few clicks of the button and its done...crime made easy. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before