Cern Lhc/alice/atlas

[minorwork]

Well, dying because of seeing the god particle seems, at first glance, better than gettin' run over by a bus while you're laying in the road, drunk.

[toadluver1]

Why Not? it's now or never at the rate of everything else, so lets give it a go!

[Robert Marsh II]

Current Report Update: CERN LHC/ALICE/ATLAS - Poll & Debate statistics: currently (07.26.08) there have been 1,766 Viewers. Total Votes: 31. Summary: 20 votes are in favor of these experiments -- 4 votes are against these experiments -- 7 votes are undecided. The percentages recorded: 20 (For) =64.52% -- 4 (Against)= 12.90% -- 7 (Undecided)= 22.58%. Overview: 20 votes 64.52% (For) : 11 votes 35.48% (Against and Undecided combined)= 64.52% : 35.48%, currently to be recorded in this time-capsule for the future. Viewer to Voting Ratio = 1,766 : 31, at this time. A special thanks are in order, for the 31 voters who understand the meaning behind: The Right & Power to Vote! Thank you for taking the extra time to Vote. Also, thank you for the debate element, which is reflected by the worldwide incoming comments. I am a 'neutral observer' recording the 'voice' of this Poll for posterity. My only interest is in recording and reporting this event. This concludes the current report.

[WHITE KNIGHT]

I just rode into the Seventh Square, although it's chapter 8, and I am balancing very badly down the poker (Poll). Congratulations, for you are ready I believe, to enter the 8th (ch. 9-10) Square! Here is my prediction, since I have been to the future: Some will call it a Quantum Wormhole, but others, a Black Hole. It shall gravitate slowly towards the Earths' Core, and envelope it. The scientists will do anything possible to neutralize the accreting, hungry Jabberwocky! No one in the Kingdom will be safe, so I have sent The Fifth Knight (YOU), to do combat with my necromancy view. This entire story involves Time, and the multiple Earth histories, created by sub-quantum wormholes! Good Luck, and go forth--------------

[drummerguy13]

No matter what the possible implications or events that the large hadron collider may cause one simple fact still remains. That NO-ONE has the slightest clue what it will do once it is turned on, and what is more concerning to me is that CERN is trying to cover up this fact, 'it will only be doing what nature does anyway'.
But the difference is, that, thats nature not a small confined space with 20 Trillion particals colliding at almost 2 times the speed of light at the same time.
It seems to me that CERN has a cult of personality type of thing going on. 'it wont hurt you come look at it on one of our tours that we get famous people to come to' (including Mc. Jager and i think Tom Cruise).
And another thing, CERN and it's affliates have more then enough money to pay for any type of cover up that may be needed, i think something like 20 countries all contribute to the LHC including NASA.
You would think...hmmm NASA big Government agency of science giving it's backing to CERN, even though the last of the VERY few of any articals that have been put onto it's website was last posted in Febuary this year and yet here they are throwing money at it.

I think soon CERN will be saying 'well you know theres worse things going on....like the war in Iraq.....thats worse then the world being destroyed isnt it?'

[Nono]

Well, seeing as I live just down the road from the thing, I promise to let you all know if something begins to go wrong. OK?

If we don't get wiped out by an asteroid first, that is.

[Michael Noonan]

Quote by: Robert Marsh II Current Report Update: CERN LHC/ALICE/ATLAS - Poll & Debate statistics: currently (07.26.08) there have been 1,766 Viewers. Total Votes: 31. Summary: 20 votes are in favor of these experiments -- 4 votes are against these experiments -- 7 votes are undecided. (snip)

Hello Robert Marsh II,
I see we have met on a few forums so it is pretty clear I would be a very strong no vote. Many reasons and not the least due to having worked out a variant unifying hypothesis for the universe based on a different geometry.

I could go into the Sanskrit "Svastika" an ancient symbol meaning any lucky or auspicious object or describe it as the dimensional representation of the visible universe. Likewise I could use the icon of the "Cross within a Halo" and describe it as the dimensional representation of all of the universe, seen and unseen. Instead I will present a puzzle that modern science is not answering at all well.

The problem I have with good science based on correct falsification of wrong observations it is rather simple:-

If we have a single fourth dimension expansion how was it able to add space during initial inflation through to the end of the dark epoch and again from first quasars to the five billion year mark and then remove space from there to to the eight billion year mark and then add it again to the present and now start the whole universe in an accelerating expansion?

That is not something a simple one extra dimension has the capacity to do, maybe a planar two dimension membrane but even then it requires a ripple structure which then invokes a third extra dimension.

So far the mathematics indicated that the universe was about 18 to 20 billion years old some thirty years ago. Then about 15 to 18 billion years old some twenty years ago on the same modeling of astronomical data and then 13.7 to 14.5 billion years old within the last ten years. So to avoid saying the universe is getting millions of years younger each year which would make scientists look like complete idiots the simple explanation of accelerating expansion is used.

What explanation is there to say why our universe is getting younger by millions of years each year now and the light being received by the most distant observations is now older than the universe? Is science wrong?

Sure I may not be a genius (if I was I would know who to talk to with some sense of understanding that things are getting pretty screwy right about now) but someone out there must be starting to get a clue that we do not have a flaming clue about what is going on out there !!!

People have every reason to fear and a 300% rise in the level of concern is not anywhere near enough to stop wrong science gone mad. It will however prevent us from doing some of the more dangerous high fusion and particle experiment long enough to learn a little of what we are doing but it will be a cost.

[Robert Marsh II]

As of this date (07.28.08), the opinion poll reflects these statistic results: Post Viewers = 2,417. Votes total in favor For: 24 = 61.54%. Votes total Against: 8 = 20.51%. Votes total Undecided (on the fence): 7 = 17.95%.
Analysis: 24 (For)
8 (Against) + 7 (Undecided) = 15. Total: 24 : 15 / 61.54% : 38.46%, as of this date and time.

This concludes the current statistic update.

Robert Marsh II / THE FIFTH KNIGHT

[WHITE KNIGHT]

I have bestowed my mantle of authority upon your shoulders, and you are now in position to affect change! I will stop in from time to time, just to 'check' up on your progress. Making sure no Bandersnatch, or Jub-Jub bird prevents your sacred mission!

THE WHITE KNIGHT

[Robert Marsh II]

I am preparing in advance ,to file the final (October 17, 2008) opinion poll statistics, and 'reply' comments to: The Library of Congress, The Smithsonian Institute, and the Washington Bureau of Statistics.
Top CERN officials: Director General Robert Aymar, Catherine Decosse (ALICE), Michelangelo Mangano, and LSAG.
Also, Stephen Hawking (if his staff will forward to him).

I would like to extend gratitude to the WHITE KNIGHT, and request a rational explanation. I sense he knows something, in regard to this debate! Remeber, I have vowed to remain fair and impartial!

Robert Marsh II / THE FIFTH KNIGHT

[drummerguy13]

Does anyone acually know when the LHC is going to be turned on?

I've read in someplaces in Augest with beams being injected in october or something like that, does anyone know the acual working date for it?

[Robert Marsh II]

At this time, there are no set dates made public. August 2008: safety 'ring-tests' at lower pulse-packet energy levels, and initial 'step-up' acceleration track tests. October 2008: the tests increase acceleration to 99.999% the speed of light, but still at lower energy levels. These may be the first collisions, but safety features will still be applied. After a recess-break, experiments should continue (once financed) early-mid 2009. This is where the currently scheduled, more dangerous experiments with ALICE & ATLAS, switching from proton-proton collisions to heavy lead(Pb) ion collisions. These tests will create the extreme hyper-density luminosities!
I will update this post, upon further information release.

[savgargin]

I'm glad I can read, decently imagine, and feel what's going on... My gut bawls "these theories and experiments are worth taking a risk" whatever LHC may discover is of no consequence!!!... c'mon now... please, fire it up and let's get over it!

[Michael Noonan]

Quote by: WHITE KNIGHT I just rode into the Seventh Square, although it's chapter 8, and I am balancing very badly down the poker (Poll). Congratulations, for you are ready I believe, to enter the 8th (ch. 9-10) Square! Here is my prediction, since I have been to the future: Some will call it a Quantum Wormhole, but others, a Black Hole. It shall gravitate slowly towards the Earths' Core, and envelope it. The scientists will do anything possible to neutralize the accreting, hungry Jabberwocky! No one in the Kingdom will be safe, so I have sent The Fifth Knight (YOU), to do combat with my necromancy view. This entire story involves Time, and the multiple Earth histories, created by sub-quantum wormholes! Good Luck, and go forth--------------

On the matter of time a worm hole could be one of the worst results possible. For a start the mathematics used is time based half wave forward and half wave backward to guess where the particle should be. Then transferred to a new mathematics with the position information but without the time component.

So what does it mean? If matter is a stable form of wormhole connected forwards and backwards in time then energizing one to become super large might cause an energy flare up a long way back or forward in time through where that particle has been. The obvious candidates are the scientists themselves with flakes of skin dropped as the normal process of human shedding goes on.

But we are looking at something with just the bump of a mosquito ... right? Yes right per proton although each second 800 million protons with about the kinetic energy of a 200 mile an hour freight train weighing in at some 200 tons. How far could one selectively change prehistory to a point where certain structures were partially built or placed differently. How would you cope with a time line that updated and you were trapped within a wall. Would people we know still exist or ourselves?

What happens to us if we are suddenly removed from physical existence along with the conscious energy of all of humanity at a given point and we are replaced by someone or something else. If you like satanic overtones then perhaps this is the ride of a lifetime.

It is not my cup of tea thank you very much.

[Thanatos]

My head hurts.

If a time machine were to somehow alter some critical life-producing puddle of slime 4.5 billion years ago the time machine would never have been built. You can only change the past in such a way that an identical machine is still built and operated.

Why is this thread attracting such weird people?

[minorwork]

Quote by: Thanatos My head hurts. If a time machine were to somehow alter some critical life-producing puddle of slime 4.5 billion years ago the time machine would never have been built. You can only change the past in such a way that an identical machine is still built and operated. Why is this thread attracting such weird people?

People used to understand reality as reducing to atoms. Chemistry advances showed mastery of such. But with the advent of instruments peering at the very small and the very large things have gotten complicated. Again. Besides generating inferior feelings there is fear of the unknown. These psychological feelings, inherent in human nature, manifest as a rejecting of the sources that are perceived causes of these uncomfortable feelings.

[drummerguy13]

i think some serious questions need to be answered by CERN, like why dont they post their operational dates on their website?
sure they change all the time but it couldn't be to much to change. they seem perfectly capable of placing cooldown records but nothing else, there is a lot about the intended operation that isn't shared with the public, even CERN's existance is barly known to the world let alone the possilble consequences, it could be CERN not promoting their billion dollar machine because they believe that normal everyday people wont approve on it, so they keep them all in the dark untill after the button is pressed i bet.

Only hear about their sucesses, everything else is covered up

[Michael Noonan]

Quote by: drummerguy13 i think some serious questions need to be answered by CERN, like why dont they post their operational dates on their website? sure they change all the time but it couldn't be to much to change. they seem perfectly capable of placing cooldown records but nothing else, there is a lot about the intended operation that isn't shared with the public, even CERN's existance is barly known to the world let alone the possilble consequences, it could be CERN not promoting their billion dollar machine because they believe that normal everyday people wont approve on it, so they keep them all in the dark untill after the button is pressed i bet. Only hear about their sucesses, everything else is covered up

Actually we are quite fortunate that CERN has been as open as they have about the experiment. Their site is "http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/" which will take you to the temperature map of the Large Hadron Collider. It updates each day but at this point in time just one final section is in cool down phase and low energy luminosity beams are going to be introduced for testing purposes possibly on the weekend Aug 9 and 10.

I say fortunate because there are people like myself who are very opposed to the experiment because there just isn't enough known about the science of particles or indeed possible structures in the atomic world to be attempting high powered experiments of this nature. What is not known is if there are 'other' military based experiments in facilities not disclosed to the public.

I have reworked a geometry used back in the 1960's that looked at structures and was discarded because it involved time change including reversal and anti matter. Well this article "http://www.physorg.com/preview119109289.html" is the initial finding of a large anti matter cloud in our galaxy and this article "http://www.physorg.com/news136197792.html" is the latest make up on the fly type physics to explain it away without so much as even having a particle that does this sort of thing ... a proposed particle.

For those who understand Einstein rings which is deforming distant starlight into a ring by a closer galaxy a micro series of similar looking rings is obtained when picosecond pulsed light is filmed passing a proton. This pdf file is what Engineers at the Max Planck Institute obtained "www.physorg.com/pdf122897584.pdf".

At that scale the light sources are variable and so the different rings as is the energy to disturb the 'electron'. What if matter is a structure with our reality experienced in this point in dimension that we know as time?

[WHITE KNIGHT]

I am preparing to seriously answer this thread discussion! My forthcoming reply will encompass the entire subject matter. As soon as it is finished, I will formally make this reply.

[Robert Marsh II]

The CERN LHC/ALICE/ATLAS poll survey, as of this date (07.31.08): 25 votes For the experiments, 8 votes Against the experiments, and 8 votes Undecided (on the fence). 25 votes = 60.98% / 8 votes = 19.51% X 2 = 39.02% / 60.98% : 39.02%, with 2,804 views of this post. This concludes the current statistic report update, at this time.