Cern Lhc/alice/atlas

[Robert Marsh II]

January 28th 2009

More 'shadow of doubt' findings arise!

Three physicists have reexamined equations in regard to microscopic black hole (MBH) formation and dissipation, then raise a caution flag:

FOXNews.com - Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

New LHC Chief Urges Caution - He wants to avoid his predecessor's mistakes - Softpedia

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Legal Actions Against CERN LHC:

LHC Facts | Walter L. Wagner | Citizens Against the Large Hadron Collider (LHC)

Legal bid to stop CERN atom smasher from 'destroying the world' - Telegraph

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CERN LHC Safety Statement:
The safety of the LHC

[Codak]

Robert yeah you have reasons to be concerned that if there was no problem with the safety of the LHC you would think these PHD scientists working there would have proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt by now.....and would have shut people like myself up....but no....they still do not have any real world proof to prove any of their safety theories actually are even real!

Since none of it has been observed in the real world, its all theoretical assumptions.

YES I am all for new discoveries and risk testing new technologies but to continue to recklessly plan to run the LHC at full power ASAP is so far like playing Russian roulette with the world.

But most people still deny that scientists are stupid enough to do it with such a great risk. I think they are the nut jobs who need to give their head a shake.

And the safety argument still hasn't been proven!! Still can't shut me up! LOL

Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

[Robert Marsh II]

February 5th 2009

Information is still coming in regard to: CERN Large Hadron Collider (LHC), as repairs are still underway for a scheduled summer '09' restart.

It's what we haven't heard about yet, that concerns me.

Longer lasting life-span black holes are 'now' mathematically more possible/probable?

I thought the micro black holes (MBH) topic was: "No worry mate!"

News Updates:

Large Hadron Collider could create long-life black holes

FT.com / UK - Physics comes back to fore

http://www.canada.com/technology/CER...576/story.html

Intel Strengthens Its Commitment to European Research | Press Release Services - EurActiv.com

[Robert Marsh II]

CERN To Set Goals For First LHC Physics

Geneva, 6 February 2009

(Excerpt):

At the conclusion of a workshop held in Chamonix this week, recommendations have been made to the CERN1 management for the restart schedule of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). If accepted in a management meeting on Monday, these recommendations will ensure that the LHC starts to produce physics data in late 2009, running through the winter and on to autumn 2010 at an energy of 5 TeV per beam and ensuring sufficient data for the experiments to produce their first new physics results.

“These recommendations represent the best way forward for the LHC and for the field of particle physics in general,” said Steve Myers, CERN’s Director for Accelerators and Chair of the Chamonix workshop. (Read Complete Article):

CERN Press Release

* Note: I at least see some additional safety hint here: initial 5 TeV per beam, instead of full-power 7 TeV per beam. This is an intelligent decision to exercise caution while moving forward.

* The new LHC management change-over has better judgement-calls for experimental safety!

CERN Document Server: Record#1154954: A global view

* However, it is amazing how 'people' straighten-up and act correctly when the heat is on legally! Even politicians change directions when their transgressions are publically exposed.

Doomsday case back in court - Cosmic Log - msnbc.com

[Codak]

Princeton University Press Blog

METAPHYSICS - Apocalypse CERN

by Tony Rothman | Filed in: In the News - Physics | 6:04pm EST

FEB 2, 2009

QUOTE:

"The scientist’s reluctance to lift one’s head from the sand, which I share, and the same “it’s wrong” attitude of the physics community has, apart from safety issues, led to a paradoxical situation. In order for the putative LHC black holes to destroy the planet, they must survive long enough to do the job. Stephen Hawking’s famous result, that black holes radiate away their mass, has led most physicists to believe that any black-holes created by the LHC would evaporate after approximately a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, far too short a time to do any damage. Nevertheless, in recent years it has become clear that Hawking’s calculation made a number of unjustified assumptions and, for example, did not take into account the effect of the black hole radiation itself on the spacetime in which it resides.

A few years ago, Grigory Vilkovisky, a Russian physicist, published a trilogy of papers claiming that if one properly took this effect into account, black holes would evaporate only about half their mass; the rest would remain. If Vilkovisky’s conclusion is correct, it would not only radically alter our ideas of black-hole physics, but would have a tremendous impact on our ideas about dark matter and would pave way for the possibility that any black holes created at CERN might actually survive long enough to be taken seriously.

Unlike Rossler, Vilkovisky is a highly respected physicist. I acknowledge that I have known him for thirty years. Bryce DeWitt, the “father of quantum gravity,” regularly referred to Grisha as “the smartest young man in the Soviet Union,” and I consider him a physicist of a similar caliber to Hawking. He has had an unfortunate career, is something of a recluse and currently in bad health. In contrast to Rossler’s paper, however, Vilkovisky’s have been published through standard channels in a peer-reviewed journal. They consist of calculations that a physicist can in principle follow. They may be wrong, and most of Vilkovisky’s colleagues with whom I have spoken think they probably are. On the other hand, none of these scientists has read them.

So: Vilkovisky’s papers, which deserve more attention than Rossler’s, are long and difficult and have met with no response. But conceivably they are right. Rossler, whose papers are easier to read and nonsensical, has become the focus of media, even scientific attention. Clearly this picture needs to be corrected, and the physics community is the only one that can do it. "

LINK:
Princeton University Press Blog » Blog Archive » METAPHYSICS - Apocalypse CERN

[Robert Marsh II]

February 15th 2009

Re-Cap Overview:

The LHC has been rescheduled to start operations again in September-October 2009.

Safety features and warning sensors are 'now' being installed, during this repair modification sequence.

The new LHC management-director is learning from his predecessors' mistakes, and is using intelligent progressive caution.

Longer lifespan Micro-Black Holes (MBH) are now mathematically possible, according to recalculations made by three physicists recently.

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News Update:

The world's largest and most powerful particle collider (LHC), is perhaps to be the last of its kind -- the last dinosaur!?

It now brushes up against the energy 'intensity frontier', which is an energy-barrier toward further precise observational parameter-measurements.

More and more energy is needed each time, in order to produce the ever-revealing particle collision information.

Larger version colliders may never be designed and built again.

Even if the LHC discovers any hidden particles in nature (ie: Higgs boson), they will not be able to measure its further parameters and prove those implications.

Back once again to the theoretical-mathematic 'blackboard' for new insights.

* Note: Technology always seems to find a way around the 'barrier' eventually!

symmetry breaking » Blog Archive » High-energy physics beyond E=mc^2

[Robert Marsh II]

February 17th 2009

Headline Excerpt:

Extra, Extra - Read All About It!

"Tom Hanks May Turn On 'Big Bang Machine'
Once It's Fixed"

Britain News.Net
Tuesday 17th February, 2009 (ANI)

London, Feb 17 : Actor Tom Hanks has agreed to turn on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) once it has been fixed.

*Read Complete Article:

Tom Hanks may turn on "big bang machine" once it's fixed

Sounds like a little "Angels and Demons" anti-matter goings-on here ----

Or is this just a terrific coincidence?

Perhaps another publicity power-play by CERN turned wide-open or will some see this as a deeper-darker omen of our future???

Prepare for the onslaught of Youtube Rap-A-Billy hype campaigns ----

All in good fun and taken with a large 'grain of salt'!

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C2NN Visitors Return Portal:
THE FIFTH KNIGHT'S NEWS
Care2 News Network: News Robert Submitted

[Yarn]

The fermi paradox.

[Robert Marsh II]

March 4th 2009

Preface:

New three-dimensional photographs beautifully capture the vastness of the experiments, built to study what happens when protons collide head-on at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Geneva, Switzerland --- just outside of jurisdictional territorial authority, but within 'new' -- more rational conservative management-constraints.

Currently scheduled for re-start operations: September-October 2009.

* Main Article:

March 4, 2009 10:38 AM
New 3D tours of the LHC released
Valerie Jamieson, deputy features editor

(Excerpt):

Photographer Peter McCready has produced some new "virtual reality tours" of the world's largest particle accelerator. They're 3D panoramas you can explore online, spinning the view around and zooming in to see details.

I was thrilled to come across his work last year because his photographs beautifully capture the vastness of the experiments built to study what happens at when protons smash head on at the Large Hadron Collider

(Read Complete 3-D Tour Article):

New 3D tours of the LHC released - Short Sharp Science - New Scientist

[Charlatan]

If you collide an amount of two up quarks with one down quark then you are colliding four up things with one down quark. The up quarks are fine as they are already together, so you would be colliding a plural with a plural, but the down quarks are where it gets interesting as there is only room for one down quark. You should end up with the down quarks ressiting each other, but being forced together they would cause some energy or some sort to form, as they are probably pushing against each other. People should see what happens when something that pushes against another does, namely creating energy of some sort. This sounds like very dangerous energy to me, as if you force magnets together they require force to make them go closer and push with greater force. If you still want to make them go together then you will be exhibiting greater force than they can push against, resulting in permamanenet force pushing each other aside. To do this with a machine means that they will quickly make the energy reactions that are souhgt as they smash into one another, resulting in a chain reaction from the inside out.

If you push two magnets togethe rfor example, with the same charge, then they create a field too inbetween them. Creating this field for just a second is indeed man made and although the results are natural, the mechanism for acheiving it is not, so you would have a lot of energy coming from the point where they meet, and that energy will react with the rest of the space and set off more 'pushing', as the quarks make their way away from each other they will meet new down quarks and push against them too, displacing and causing more energy to be released as they make their way away from the centre.

Sounds like a lot of energy!

[Robert Marsh II]

March 9th 2009

CERN LHC:

It may always be darkest before the dawn, but the race is 'not' over yet --- place your bets --- place your bets --- LHC: Win, Place or Show??? Fermilab v/s CERN LHC in the hunt for the God Particle (Higgs boson).

The following Newsweek article sheds some clarity concerning this current debate element.

Perhaps if the LHC loses out in the race, then it can be still be redirected for 'other' scientific achievement --- Perhaps for creating micro black holes (MBH) for long-term study and verification???

CERN may have to call-in Stephen Hawking in person on that one!

Main Article:

"God’s Broken Machine"

Newsweek - USA

(Excerpt):

Physicists at the world's biggest particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva, are seeing their dreams of Nobel Prizes go down the drain along ...

Complete Article:

U.S. Is Gaining On Europe In Race for God Particle | Newsweek International Edition | Newsweek.com

[minorwork]

From the Electric Universe crowd. A criticism of Big Science and CERN.
$Billions Sucked into Black Holes - Science in the Present Time

[Michael Noonan]

Quote by: minorwork From the Electric Universe crowd. A criticism of Big Science and CERN. $Billions Sucked into Black Holes - Science in the Present Time

Electric Universe just happens to be one of many a competing theory. CERN and other particle physicists admit to having fundamental gaps in their theory and use the excuse as the reason for the experiment in the first place.

Scientists do not know what to expect and can therefore give no guarantee of safety.

Just to keep things up to date this is what I wrote on the EU website:-

But is the experiment safe? Experimentation within known safety limits allows for knowledge to advance. From a better known base there is more certainty. For Electric Universe theorists Galaxy Filaments from work in 2006 show a highly connected universe. A bit down the page is the usual star mapping without the dark matter pathways. The problem I have with the exercise is that all the forces and fields are two dimensional at the molecular level. It means the components that make us do not experience the universe in the same way we do. The synergy of being a collection of atoms gives us the ability to experience volume. It may be that a simple mistake of what we take for granted does not exist at the energies and scales being experimented. Take the well known refute of the Einstein-Rosen bridge and clearly the left side of the equation could be applied to a two dimension system. The right side is a tensor three dimension solution incapable of reducing a sphere to a near point amount. It is the basic division by zero error. In the case that it allows for 'almost' zero transfer consider that it takes a neutron around 15 minutes to acquire the charge to become a proton. That in atomic scales from femto second electron activity to real time 15 minute decay would require an almost zero transfer conduit.

[minorwork]

How about a link to your post at EU? PM it to me or something.

[Michael Noonan]

Quote by: minorwork How about a link to your post at EU? PM it to me or something.

Sure minorwork. It is a reply on the forum to the EU article here that you found for this discussion. Reply three I think.

[cherlene]

why is it so hard to find updated information on this project?? has there been any data from last failed experiment? should this experiment be a success will the information also be hidden from us or hard to find? I have so many questions? concerns? I am a risk taker and love exploring new horizons but if it took this many years to debate the safety of proceeding in the courts ..and now all this secrecy..I am fearful of the outcome and I want my prosterity to have a future with less problems not more in this world? why are we trying to find new dimensions and the higgs bosom when our world is in such a mess ?? just seems we are putting the cart before the horse? It is very exciting but what if it goes wrong? what about the tilting of the world towards the zero point? wont that interfere with this project?? shouldnt we be trying to fix this world instead of exploring new worlds ,dimensions, energies? Are we risking to much based on guesswork? Are they so smart they have gone just to far this time??? If we should know these things wouldnt we have found out before this? The expectations sound so exciting and revalutionary but is the risk to discover worth it? They dont even know what could go wrong?

[minorwork]

Quote by: cherlene why is it so hard to find updated information on this project?? has there been any data from last failed experiment? should this experiment be a success will the information also be hidden from us or hard to find? I have so many questions? concerns? I am a risk taker and love exploring new horizons but if it took this many years to debate the safety of proceeding in the courts ..and now all this secrecy..I am fearful of the outcome and I want my prosterity to have a future with less problems not more in this world? why are we trying to find new dimensions and the higgs bosom when our world is in such a mess ?? just seems we are putting the cart before the horse? It is very exciting but what if it goes wrong? what about the tilting of the world towards the zero point? wont that interfere with this project?? shouldnt we be trying to fix this world instead of exploring new worlds ,dimensions, energies? Are we risking to much based on guesswork? Are they so smart they have gone just to far this time??? If we should know these things wouldnt we have found out before this? The expectations sound so exciting and revalutionary but is the risk to discover worth it? They dont even know what could go wrong?

Sooo many queries. Sooo little time. CERN - European Organization for Nuclear Research

Knowledge. What can you know? Fix the world? You have to know how the world operates, the nature and interactions of the mechanisms and laws of physics before a "fix" can be attempted on small things that mean little before attempting large things that mean a lot.

Tilting of the world to zero point has no meaning to me. What are you speaking of? Links to sites? It has the characteristic feeling to me of bogus terms, like scalar wave emitters that are being sold to dupes. Energy Enhancement System

Cern Lhc/alice/atlas post 146 is my analysis of what might have happened last year during functional testing. Not running any experiments at the time. Only breaking that big machine in.

The only thing new I have is that the electrical connections have to slip fit because as the system is cooled the length contracts and so there has to be a sliding connection that developed a higher resistance and dropped 9kw and boiled the coolant faster (a lot faster) than the relief valve could get rid of the excessive pressure and blew out the container, tearing it off its mount.

[cherlene]

I am all for discoveries for betterment of all but I am scared to death of all that I dont know and read that could go wrong..humaninity is not infallible... yes we are amazing but we are also arrogant and destructive..Ofcourse i want new horizons for my future prosterity but it sounds so risky and EXPENSIVE.. and with the wars and economy in such bad shape.. why would we think discovering a new dimension would help??? shouldnt we get it somewhat right in our own dimension first?? The tilting of the world is knowledge i found from gregg braden a very very intelligent man who studies quauntum physics...he explains this happening very well...and i believe him and respect his intelligence and positive approach to this phenonenon...gravity is needed for proposed success of this experiment and if world is tilting towards zero point that means we loose electromangnetic feild ..the very thing that our reality as we know it and the world operates on...and we loose gravity? are you ready for that? sry if you disagree but his theory as scary as it is makes sense ..this LHC experiment sounds to risky to chance and wont be successful and could possibly create more problems maybe beyond repair .. can you change my mind?

[Charlatan]

The new dimension has already been found, you can enter it by intersecting angles of a room in such a way that you open up a new angle that may be entered into by a living thing or non living thing. Of course the room has more to it than a normal room and it exists because the three dimensional extremities have been joined to the fourth dimensional ones, bringing the fourth dimension out of the fourth dimension into the third dimension. A simple look at wiki fourth dimesnion will give you a picture - you reach in and 'grab' the fourth dimension and join its 'insides' to the third dimension that we dwell in.

The good things about doing this is we may be able to produce more natural resources. Or, think of the possibilites of creating a new atom inside the existing atom to be split - it might be very useful. As I said about natural resources, if you were to eneter a new dimension within the carbon or gold, you may discover new qaulities to it. If you were to go inside the resource and bring the fourth dimensional things out of it, then you may be left with more of it. So you could double, maybe triple your gold deposits and oil, maybe even for food! That would be useful i think.

In going into the fourth dimension there is gravity because there is no floating in the third dimension - if something inside a three dimensional thing floated away, the other three dimensions would fly away too, as the thing is a whole thing.

So there is the possibilty of bringing forth more food and resources, and no danger as the fourth dimension can be closed again by reversing the process. Of course if you were a terrorist you might bomb the fourth dimension, but I can't see any dangers with that.

[Permagain]

[COLOR=#ff6010]Legal bid to stop CERN atom smasher from 'destroying the world' - Telegraph[/COLOR]

This sounds like the beginnings to a Jules Verne novel. Or Lovecraft. There are some things man was not meant to know..

Scientists have never really been wrong about anything important. If they feel it is important to spend millions and use time and resources to balance out an equal sign in an equation on the fringes of Theoretical Physics, they should. It's not like someone is balancing a checkbook or anything. What could go wrong? Sure Earth may be destroyed when a new law of Physics is verified, but the second time we create this Death Machine, the benefits will surely rain down on us like sweet nectar.

What is the downside risk here? What do we stand to gain? We may learn that it is possible to create a black hole right here on Earth. Um Yay...

shouldnt we get it somewhat right in our own dimension first??

No it'll be cool like Space Oddessey. jk, I agree with your post completely cherlene.
Why not spend this money and resources to use technology that we already know about? What real value is there in this Science? It is such a bad descision.

any black-holes created by the LHC would evaporate after approximately a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, far too short a time to do any damage.

It already does damage in the form of sucking in human capital. It's the same effect that the black hole of war already accomplishes, people spend time and energy and resources to make machines that serve no other purposes than to destroy human capital. This is the case here. Is it not? It is a desiring machine.

Can a black hole 'get started' once it sucks in enough mass? Is there risk of that?