Tackling obesity

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Thanatos Face it. The culture is what's sick and the government can't do much. They can give us healthier food by cleaning up the corruption of the FDA so we don't get quite as sick from pigging out, but that's about it that's within their scope.

Why is it the government's responsibility to do anything about it? While I agree it would be nice if healthier foods were cheaper to buy than the junk food we love so much (I'll never understand why it costs more to buy organic produce than produce that's covered in pesticides), why is it that certain people have this ridiculous notion that the role of government is to solve everyone's problems?

[Domino]

(I'll never understand why it costs more to buy organic produce than produce that's covered in pesticides)

Supply: less organically grown food survives.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Chancellor No, too much fat (the meat is the muscles). They could be used for lamp oil, though, the way whale blubber is used by eskimos.

Yeah they would be full of oil, also could be used as beasts to cart our goods around, couple of hooks through their pig like noses to control them with.
I dont think we need to clothe them, the fat layers will keep them warm.

[Aussie]

Self-control and responsibility went out the window a long time ago. Its always someone elses fault -McDonalds, KFC. Until people start taking responsibility for their own actions, obesity will continue to grow (pardon the pun).

[JaneDoe321]

I do believe that it is important to also address the issue of a culture based on consumption of ALL sorts... food, material goods, etc. I believe obesity is a symptom, not the actual problem.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Chancellor Why is it the government's responsibility to do anything about it? While I agree it would be nice if healthier foods were cheaper to buy than the junk food we love so much (I'll never understand why it costs more to buy organic produce than produce that's covered in pesticides), why is it that certain people have this ridiculous notion that the role of government is to solve everyone's problems?

Its the government's responsibility because it is beyond my capabilities as an individual to ninja my way into the FDA and clonk certain louts on the head. It is also beyond my capabilities to discipline the offending companies directly. I am not V nor do I believe a terrorist insurrection against the makers of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil would work out so well.

If I really put my mind to it and bought a mass spectrometer and read Consumer Reports religiously I could avoid horrible food in a totally anarchic society. But you know what? That would be a lot like work. Call me lazy but I don't even want to have to think about whether there's something abnormally dangerous in my french fries. Lets make it someone else's job, toss them money every once in a while, and give them a name. Like government. Hmm...and tell them to repave my road too.

Ideally the government exists as an extension of collective will and power so that such business can be taken care of in an orderly fashion. I hate to ask, but if this isn't the role of the government why the hell am I giving them money? What are they supposed to be doing? Twiddling their thumbs?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Thanatos Its the government's responsibility because it is beyond my capabilities as an individual to ninja my way into the FDA and clonk certain louts on the head. It is also beyond my capabilities to discipline the offending companies directly. I am not V nor do I believe a terrorist insurrection against the makers of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil would work out so well.

But you do have the power of the pocketbook! When offending companies start losing money after enough people stop buying their products, they'll change their ways.

If I really put my mind to it and bought a mass spectrometer and read Consumer Reports religiously I could avoid horrible food in a totally anarchic society. But you know what? That would be a lot like work. Call me lazy but I don't even want to have to think about whether there's something abnormally dangerous in my french fries. Lets make it someone else's job, toss them money every once in a while, and give them a name. Like government. Hmm...and tell them to repave my road too.

The issue of roads is irrelevant to the discussion but even that should be kept on the local level. But, yes, it's a lot of work to be a responsible individual.

Ideally the government exists as an extension of collective will and power so that such business can be taken care of in an orderly fashion. I hate to ask, but if this isn't the role of the government why the hell am I giving them money? What are they supposed to be doing? Twiddling their thumbs?

Well, I'm not a big fan of the collective and the further government is away from the people, the smaller it should be. Local governments are closest to the people, so most matters should be handled on that level.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Chancellor But you do have the power of the pocketbook! When offending companies start losing money after enough people stop buying their products, they'll change their ways.

There's a book people interested in this topic should read. You overestimate common people and underestimate the power of money and greed.

Amazon.com: The Jungle (The Penguin American Library): Upton Sinclair,Ronald Gottesman: Books

Chancellor, being the social darwinist you are you probably wouldn't care about whether this part of capitalism works or not as long as you personally can get by, but its a good read anyway.

[gela]

Prevention > fixing the problem


Really, eat healthy, and you stay relativily thin. Forget exercise.
Sure, you will be unhealthy if you don't exercise - but the fact is, people do not have the time for it.

Loosing weight is painful. You have to burn off fat.
On top of that, you are addicted to sugar and unhealthy foods.
Not putting it on in the first place is much easier.
Just teach the kids to eat healthy food.

[Anmon]

Quote by: gela Really, eat healthy, and you stay relativily thin. Forget exercise. Sure, you will be unhealthy if you don't exercise - but the fact is, people do not have the time for it.

Exercise is just as important in being healthy as eating the right foods and correct amounts of.
You may not have the time for it, but a lot of other people do, people that have loads of time to just sit on their lazy bum in front of a computer getting flabby all day, could easily find the time to exercise and thus be healthier by just cutting their internet talk time in half.
Exercise improves your cardio vascular system in ways that just eating right cannot.
Even if you eat right your whole life, you still have to exercise your body to stay healthy.

[gela]

Exercise is just as important in being healthy as eating the right foods and correct amounts of. You may not have the time for it, but a lot of other people do, people that have loads of time to just sit on their lazy bum in front of a computer getting flabby all day, could easily find the time to exercise and thus be healthier by just cutting their internet talk time in half. Exercise improves your cardio vascular system in ways that just eating right cannot. Even if you eat right your whole life, you still have to exercise your body to stay healthy.

1. The topic of the thread is obesity, not health.
2. I do have time for it, and I am far from 'getting flabby'. My point was alot of people don't.
3. Just to show the redudancy of your post, I will quote from my own post:

you will be unhealthy if you don't exercise

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Domino Supply: less organically grown food survives.

So, you believe this nonsense that less supply somehow magically causes prices to rise. What it really comes down to is greedy people deciding that they're going to bilk the consumer for as much money as they can get.

[Aussie]

Quote by: Chancellor So, you believe this nonsense that less supply somehow magically causes prices to rise. What it really comes down to is greedy people deciding that they're going to bilk the consumer for as much money as they can get.

Isn't that capitalism? Isn't that the basis for supply & demand?

[Domino]

Supply can certainly be manipulated to affect prices.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Domino Supply can certainly be manipulated to affect prices.

Supply can be manipulated so that those people that decide the prices can manipulate the prices. Supply itself does not magically cause prices to change: people are directly responsible for changes in price.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Chancellor If people want to consume more calories than they burn, that's their business. Now, for those who gain weight because of other issues, e.g. hypothyroidism or medications, then deal with those.

This is about the whole case with obesity.
Yet, some guys try to dimminish these factors, and focus on some alleged conditional aspects, instead.
That is us, Mankind :-)

[Derek Wolff]

I'm against the concept of a mandatory NHS altogether, anyway. People's health should be their own business. Everyone should own their burdens. No one can make you un-fat other than yourself. I was obese for most of my life up until about 8 months ago, then I dropped 45 pounds because I didn't want to be fat anymore. My parents would constantly intimidate me about the looming dangers of childhood diabetes and of the blood pressure problems in our family, but in the end I did it for myself. What I suggest, is to let the fatties eat themself into their health problems, and clear out the gene pool. Fit parents are more likely to raise fit children. Sounds cruel, but it's the same process that resulted in humans in the first place.

When the government flips the bill for your medical costs its no longer just your business.

Why should obesity be tackled at all? If people want to consume more calories than they burn, that's their business. Now, for those who gain weight because of other issues, e.g. hypothyroidism or medications, then deal with those.

How many of them are actually naturally obese?

[xyzer]

Whatever is done I just hope the government/s stays the hell out of it! If you are too fat and have high medical bills, you pay for it not me in an indirect sense.

If you are too fat to work, then starve ! I think too many people are getting fatter because they are told constantly how tempting and delicious fatty foods are. Vendors vie to see who can offer the most for the money and its advertised widely. Fast fatty food restaurants are all over the place.

If you are too fat to fit in an airplane seat don't fly or pay for two seats to accomodate your fat a*@
If you are too fat for a job then lose some weight. Its a personal thing and your own business.

Moderation and self discipline?

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Chancellor So, you believe this nonsense that less supply somehow magically causes prices to rise. What it really comes down to is greedy people deciding that they're going to bilk the consumer for as much money as they can get.

As a hardcore democratic socialist I take capitalist economics with a grain of salt and sometimes the whole shaker and yes you are right, but the fact of the matter is that raising a ton of organic tomatoes requires much much more work than raising a ton of inorganic tomatoes. Remember the supply is less because the bugs ate half your tomatoes so you had to plant twice as much. Planting extra, as well as using tedious methods of organic pest control so the bugs only eat half (I am guilty of manual genocide against slugs and can speak on this with authority), puts a very nonmagical extra cost on organic produce.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Chancellor Why is it the government's responsibility to do anything about it? While I agree it would be nice if healthier foods were cheaper to buy than the junk food we love so much (I'll never understand why it costs more to buy organic produce than produce that's covered in pesticides), why is it that certain people have this ridiculous notion that the role of government is to solve everyone's problems?

Pesticides create larger crop yeilds and therefore cheaper crops. Though I agree that it's not the Governments responsibility to do anything, education is nice, but ultimately it's down to each one of us eating the correct amount of calories for the amount of activity we do.