Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Nemiroff · Dec 28, 2007, 12:02 pm

Personally, i believe in Aliens. Wether they visited us or not is up in the air, they dont even need to necessarily be more advanced then us, there is just as much chance that they are in the stone age, as there is for them to be in some super hyperspace age.

regardless, we have way too many stars in way too many galaxies, and about half of them have planets. i see no reason why there shouldn't be MANY MANY other civilizations that evolved within our universe. perhaps many of them killed each other off before achieving the ability to contact us just as we have been doing for years and continue doing.

But the Odds of Life, as slim as they are per planet, is like dipping into a jar with billions of sticks trying to find one.....but you get billions of tries....makes finding the stick almost a certaintly.

Milton Bradley · Dec 28, 2007, 02:15 pm

I tend to agree with Carl Sagan, who indicated that no matter how many civilizations evolve, in the vast amount of time the Universe has existed, that it wouyld be unlikely that any advanced civilizations would coexist at the same time.

Civilizations are inclined to die just as the stars do over time.

Nemiroff · Dec 28, 2007, 04:20 pm

They are not "inclined" to die off, but according some physicist who made a scale of different levels of civilization, and currently we're at the crossroads where most civilizations die. A point where are technological advancements far surpass our social advancement, and we are at the greatest risk of destroying ourselves. As for how many advanced civilizations are out there at any point in time is something that I believe is completely up in the air, there could be none, there could be hundreds, we don't even know the size of the universe, much less how many civilizations are out there.

btw, we are currently at civilization level 0, our main power source are dead plants!!! Not quite as advanced as we like to think of ourselves, in fact it almost sounds pathetic.

Dieval · Dec 28, 2007, 04:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Nemiroff

They are not "inclined" to die off, but according some physicist who made a scale of different levels of civilization, and currently we're at the crossroads where most civilizations die. A point where are technological advancements far surpass our social advancement, and we are at the greatest risk of destroying ourselves. As for how many advanced civilizations are out there at any point in time is something that I believe is completely up in the air, there could be none, there could be hundreds, we don't even know the size of the universe, much less how many civilizations are out there.

btw, we are currently at civilization level 0, our main power source are dead plants!!! Not quite as advanced as we like to think of ourselves, in fact it almost sounds pathetic.

Ah, an MK fan

He does have amazing insite in to the universe and what's (potentially) out there...

My personal belief is that we are probably not alone in the universe, although no one, to my knowledge, has 100% irrefutable evidence of the existance of extraterrestrials.

Milton Bradley · Dec 29, 2007, 02:57 am

The civilization would still have a very, very difficult time outlasting their host planet.

The odds are stacked against it.

**Chris** · Dec 29, 2007, 10:21 am

the odds are stacked against it in a solar system, but the observable universe is incredibly HUGE and contains 70 sextillion stars (thats a 7 followed by 22 zeros, i.e. a whole lot of stars)

Chaossaber314 · Dec 29, 2007, 10:57 am

Quote:

Quote by: Milton Bradley

I tend to agree with Carl Sagan, who indicated that no matter how many civilizations evolve, in the vast amount of time the Universe has existed, that it wouyld be unlikely that any advanced civilizations would coexist at the same time.

Civilizations are inclined to die just as the stars do over time.

The definition of advanced civilization much like that of an intelligent civilization are very much relative.

Milton Bradley · Dec 29, 2007, 05:40 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chris

the odds are stacked against it in a solar system, but the observable universe is incredibly HUGE and contains 70 sextillion stars (thats a 7 followed by 22 zeros, i.e. a whole lot of stars)

Yeah, but can you get to the one that has a planet capable of sustaining your species? That's the question. My answer, very, very unlikely.

nerdvincent · Dec 29, 2007, 06:10 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Milton Bradley

Yeah, but can you get to the one that has a planet capable of sustaining your species? That's the question. My answer, very, very unlikely.

Bacterias survived space travels to Mars, other are breeding at 300°C in the deepest part of the ocean, living on sulphur. A very broad range of planet can sustain life, even if it's unicellular craps.

Lullaby Chainer · Dec 29, 2007, 06:54 pm

Discovery Channel :: Study Predicts Trillions Of Planets

Quote:

"This means there are at least 100 billion stars with planets in our Galaxy," Lineweaver said. "With about 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe, our result suggests that there are at least 10 trillion planetary systems in the Universe."

**Chris** · Dec 29, 2007, 07:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Milton Bradley

Yeah, but can you get to the one that has a planet capable of sustaining your species? That's the question. My answer, very, very unlikely.

The odds we can get to any of those life sustaining planets are slim. The odds that they exist are not.

Kuldeep · Dec 31, 2007, 06:46 am

Under the condition, when science is unable to understand Life itself so well, how to tell what are its odds ???

To me, Life is feeling of existence in matter/sub-matter/super-matter/meta or pare-matter... (EGO). I do not see any odds in that Ego, everything is even about it.

It is better to understand life of this planet (earth) fully before, going in for other planets !!!

Milton Bradley · Dec 31, 2007, 03:07 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chris

The odds we can get to any of those life sustaining planets are slim. The odds that they exist are not.

A agree, but I was talking about "coexisting", as in being in exitance at the same time.

Nemiroff · Jan 1, 2008, 05:45 pm

the universe is big, if the odds of one species to exist in the entirety of the universe are not too low, it is possible for 2 of them to evolve at near the same time. maybe not always, but i'm sure there was or will be a time before the universe dies that 2 civilizations happen to exist together.

Also, the planet need not be this particular distance, or need water. just because life here needs those things, doesn't mean there can't be something that feeds of sulfur or dry ice, or some wierd things. We not so recently discovered things living in the deepest trench at the bottom of the deepest ocean where any trace of sunlight is completely dried off. they live off volcanic crap from the center of the earth that spews out from the bottom of the trench.

We have wierd life here on earth, imagine what could have evolved under completely different conditions and all definitions of what life needs are thrown out the window.

simple simon · Jan 7, 2008, 10:09 pm

there is life in the universe other then that which we know of on this planet ..... you just need to know where to look ,, the evidence is there

Halofan48 · Jan 8, 2008, 12:08 am

Life existing on other planets is practically fact. At the same time as we do is a bit more debatable, but still very likely. Also, why does life have to be Hydrogen based? Say hello to trillions of more planets for potential of life. The likelihood of coming across a species on another planet is very unlikely. Were pretty much on the verge of killing ourselves already. We've already found over 130 planets outside of our solar system at least, the last time i checked, which wasn't recent by the way. For those of you who want to know how, they have a little process. They look at a star, if it wobbles (possibly meaning a gravitational pull of an orbiting planet) they keep observing the star. If the see a spot moving across surface of the star that eventually disappears on the other side, then they pretty much have found a new planet. They observe other things to make sure, and then they classify it. If I'm correct they name them after the star with a number after it. At least thats how they named the planets they first found. Also, they have found evidence, and what they believe to be ice, on Mars. We might find extinct life similar to us, or some subterranean (sorry, lack of a better word, i know "Terra" means earth) species that might still exist. Then you have the satellite (moon, for those of you who don't know what that meant) orbiting Jupiter, I think Io, might have oceans under the icy surface. Yet, again, life can exist almost everywhere. There might be life on Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, etc. due to life's ability to adapt. So lets hope someone comes and disagrees with us so we can have a great debate.

Kuldeep · Jan 8, 2008, 02:05 am

Life we talk what we are aware of. Other planet people could tell life some thing else. They might be existing in Soul form as we understand soul as abstract substance. But for them it might be subjective and physical....then what ???

Halofan48 · Jan 9, 2008, 12:43 am

Ok, that last comment kind of confused me, but I think I got it. Anyway, remembered the name of the moon of Jupiter that might have oceans, and it's Europa, not Io, so my bad.

Kite · Jan 9, 2008, 01:42 pm

The numbers are definetly in favor of there being some other type of life in the universe, however its being intelligent and having developed into a society that we would recognize is very doubtful.

Nemiroff · Jan 10, 2008, 12:35 am

regardless, we can easily count over an insane number of galaxies with countless stars in each within the "visible" univierse, we have no idea how big the entire universe is.
Just like the odds against life are low, but the number of opportunity for the improbable to happen, its eventual success, is quite probable, so is the chance for it to be intelligent or civilized, isn't probable, but very possible.

Dec 28, 2007, 12:02 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Nemiroff Igneous Magma Posts: 354	The Odds of Life Personally, i believe in Aliens. Wether they visited us or not is up in the air, they dont even need to necessarily be more advanced then us, there is just as much chance that they are in the stone age, as there is for them to be in some super hyperspace age. regardless, we have way too many stars in way too many galaxies, and about half of them have planets. i see no reason why there shouldn't be MANY MANY other civilizations that evolved within our universe. perhaps many of them killed each other off before achieving the ability to contact us just as we have been doing for years and continue doing. But the Odds of Life, as slim as they are per planet, is like dipping into a jar with billions of sticks trying to find one.....but you get billions of tries....makes finding the stick almost a certaintly.

Dec 29, 2007, 10:21 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,281	the odds are stacked against it in a solar system, but the observable universe is incredibly HUGE and contains 70 sextillion stars (thats a 7 followed by 22 zeros, i.e. a whole lot of stars) Delusion- A persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. (i.e. religion) Shared via G reader Blog

Jan 7, 2008, 10:09 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
simple simon Great Knower Of All Location: Maine Posts: 240	there is life in the universe other then that which we know of on this planet ..... you just need to know where to look ,, the evidence is there When I look at you, I doubt I could eat the amount I wanna vomit

Jan 8, 2008, 12:08 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,274	Life existing on other planets is practically fact. At the same time as we do is a bit more debatable, but still very likely. Also, why does life have to be Hydrogen based? Say hello to trillions of more planets for potential of life. The likelihood of coming across a species on another planet is very unlikely. Were pretty much on the verge of killing ourselves already. We've already found over 130 planets outside of our solar system at least, the last time i checked, which wasn't recent by the way. For those of you who want to know how, they have a little process. They look at a star, if it wobbles (possibly meaning a gravitational pull of an orbiting planet) they keep observing the star. If the see a spot moving across surface of the star that eventually disappears on the other side, then they pretty much have found a new planet. They observe other things to make sure, and then they classify it. If I'm correct they name them after the star with a number after it. At least thats how they named the planets they first found. Also, they have found evidence, and what they believe to be ice, on Mars. We might find extinct life similar to us, or some subterranean (sorry, lack of a better word, i know "Terra" means earth) species that might still exist. Then you have the satellite (moon, for those of you who don't know what that meant) orbiting Jupiter, I think Io, might have oceans under the icy surface. Yet, again, life can exist almost everywhere. There might be life on Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, etc. due to life's ability to adapt. So lets hope someone comes and disagrees with us so we can have a great debate. Knowledge is power, use it well. Don't fear the unknown, seek to understand it

Jan 9, 2008, 12:43 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,274	Ok, that last comment kind of confused me, but I think I got it. Anyway, remembered the name of the moon of Jupiter that might have oceans, and it's Europa, not Io, so my bad. Knowledge is power, use it well. Don't fear the unknown, seek to understand it

Dec 28, 2007, 02:15 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	I tend to agree with Carl Sagan, who indicated that no matter how many civilizations evolve, in the vast amount of time the Universe has existed, that it wouyld be unlikely that any advanced civilizations would coexist at the same time. Civilizations are inclined to die just as the stars do over time.

Dec 28, 2007, 04:20 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Nemiroff Igneous Magma Posts: 354	They are not "inclined" to die off, but according some physicist who made a scale of different levels of civilization, and currently we're at the crossroads where most civilizations die. A point where are technological advancements far surpass our social advancement, and we are at the greatest risk of destroying ourselves. As for how many advanced civilizations are out there at any point in time is something that I believe is completely up in the air, there could be none, there could be hundreds, we don't even know the size of the universe, much less how many civilizations are out there. btw, we are currently at civilization level 0, our main power source are dead plants!!! Not quite as advanced as we like to think of ourselves, in fact it almost sounds pathetic.

Dec 29, 2007, 02:57 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	The civilization would still have a very, very difficult time outlasting their host planet. The odds are stacked against it.

Dec 31, 2007, 06:46 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	Under the condition, when science is unable to understand Life itself so well, how to tell what are its odds ??? To me, Life is feeling of existence in matter/sub-matter/super-matter/meta or pare-matter... (EGO). I do not see any odds in that Ego, everything is even about it. It is better to understand life of this planet (earth) fully before, going in for other planets !!!

Jan 1, 2008, 05:45 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Nemiroff Igneous Magma Posts: 354	the universe is big, if the odds of one species to exist in the entirety of the universe are not too low, it is possible for 2 of them to evolve at near the same time. maybe not always, but i'm sure there was or will be a time before the universe dies that 2 civilizations happen to exist together. Also, the planet need not be this particular distance, or need water. just because life here needs those things, doesn't mean there can't be something that feeds of sulfur or dry ice, or some wierd things. We not so recently discovered things living in the deepest trench at the bottom of the deepest ocean where any trace of sunlight is completely dried off. they live off volcanic crap from the center of the earth that spews out from the bottom of the trench. We have wierd life here on earth, imagine what could have evolved under completely different conditions and all definitions of what life needs are thrown out the window.

Jan 8, 2008, 02:05 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	Life we talk what we are aware of. Other planet people could tell life some thing else. They might be existing in Soul form as we understand soul as abstract substance. But for them it might be subjective and physical....then what ???

Jan 9, 2008, 01:42 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Kite Evil Overlord Location: A Geofront, somewhere in Antarctica Posts: 938	The numbers are definetly in favor of there being some other type of life in the universe, however its being intelligent and having developed into a society that we would recognize is very doubtful. I know your type. You think, "I'll just get me a costume, rip off the neighborhood kids." Next thing you know, you've got a jet shaped like a skull with lasers on the front! -The Monarch

Jan 10, 2008, 12:35 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Nemiroff Igneous Magma Posts: 354	regardless, we can easily count over an insane number of galaxies with countless stars in each within the "visible" univierse, we have no idea how big the entire universe is. Just like the odds against life are low, but the number of opportunity for the improbable to happen, its eventual success, is quite probable, so is the chance for it to be intelligent or civilized, isn't probable, but very possible.