Chimps beat people in memory task

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Chimps beat people in memory task | Science | The Guardian

"There are still many people, including many biologists, who believe that humans are superior to chimpanzees in all cognitive functions," said Tetsuro Matsuzawa, of Kyoto University, who led the study. "No one can imagine that chimpanzees - young chimpanzees at the age of five - have a better performance in a memory task than humans. "Here we show for the first time that young chimpanzees have an extraordinary working memory capability for numerical recollection - better than that of human adults tested in the same apparatus, following the same procedure." The team began by testing three pairs of mothers and young on a game that involved touching numbers from 1 to 9 in the correct order. The numbers were randomly scattered across a computer screen. To make things harder the team then changed the task so that some digits were missing. The chimps had to realise that if there was no 3 for example, then 4 was the next in the sequence after 2. To make things harder still, the researchers changed the game so that once the chimp had hit the first number in the sequence, the rest would disappear and be replaced by blank squares. To complete the task correctly, the chimps had to remember the locations of the numbers behind the squares and hit them in the right order. Again the chimps were up to the task. Finally, the researchers made the experiment even tougher by steadily reducing the amount of time the chimps had to memorise the sequence of numbers. When the team compared the chimps' performance with student volunteers they found they left the humans standing. The difference was most noticeable when the chimps and human volunteers had least time to memorise the numbers. Top of the class among the chimps was Ayumu, who got the number order correct 80% of the time when the digits appeared on screen for just two tenths of a second. That compared with a 40% success rate for the humans. He also did no worse at this speed than when he had more time to memorise the positions.

[Osborn F Enready]

Chimps don't have to deal with what things mean, only what they look like.

A chimp sees a shape.

A human sees a number, an objective fact, a symbol of a numerical language.

There is a lot here not being said.

[Chaossaber314]

Still, if chimps are beating us in shapes... ouch.

Osborn, it's kinda like saying he didn't beat me in Calculus, he beat me in Addition. Doesn't exactly help the argument. LOL.

[tinybear]

Humans put too many things into their 'memory disk'. Chimps on the other hand do not have that many things to remember.

[Praxius]

You guys are missing the bigger picture on this story.... These tests on the chimps have been going on since the early 90's. These chimps the humans were up against have been doing the same thing for years.... I don't believe it was a fair comparison.

I seen this during an episode of The Nature of Things with David Suzuki if memory serves correctly. But I remember they got peanuts for getting it right, it was a quick shot of the numbers on a black and white screen, and they had to pick the order. I believe this started in either Japan or China (Leaning on Japan)

One chimp that is stuck in my memory is one who got it wrong a couple of times in a row and boy did he start getting pissed, lol.

Granted, I know chimps and many others related to us all, are all very bright and intelligent, but when you got these chimps doing it for years, the same repetitive routine for food, it'd be just like us punching in our pin numbers for debt cards, certain phone numbers from memory, etc.

Throw a couple of humans off the street to test against these chimps..... ain't balanced in anyway. Stick the same chimps against one's which were never exposed to the game and see what happens.

These chimps have a very clear understanding of what the numbers and orders mean... just not what we use them for....

Human: Put coin in slot, puch G5 to get your salted peanuts from the machine.

Chimp: See numbers, Punch code in order to get your peanuts from the machine.

Do it for a while, you hardly even have to look anymore. It's not just intelligence level, it's basic personal priority..... but they get their peanuts for free..... so who are the real monkeys

[ZNFYRH]

Osborn had it right in Post #2, Prax.

Yes, that's what it would mean in that case.

But when you see G5 you actually hear the letter G and the number 5 in your head. You think about them for that split second.

A chimp doesn't.

I've been playing a game on the DS called Flash Focus and one of the games does just what this test does.

On the hardest level of the hardest difficulty, 10 numbers flash on the screen... literally flash... and you have to repeat the sequence.

I found that when I thought about the numbers... like tried to say to myself "one one three two six five nine four eight three" I would never remember them.

I had to let myself remember the shapes alone. I had to unlearn the instant application of context to what I was seeing.

Chimps don't have to do that. Our numbers are terribly simple to remember as shapes. Very simple. The chimps do that instinctively. We have to unlearn.

[Nemiroff]

Does this mean we're on the verge of discovering a giant workforce for simple menial tasks that'll work for peanuts? But then all the unemployed people will go on hate crimes against chimps!

[ZNFYRH]

Possibly.

On the verge of a workforce that doesn't think about their task, just performs it for the psychological rewards, and physical rewards.

[Praxius]

I don't think it is as simple as the Chimps not having to learn like we do, the thought patterns are similar to our own.

Anybody ever seen or heard of Coco the Gorilla who picked her partner from a tv screen (basically online dating) and she sign languaged to one of her keepers whether she liked a certain male gorilla?

She'd sign language one was too fat, or this one was too old, or unhealthy, until she went ape sh*t over one and started repeating her sign language that "Coco Likes" and "Bring to Coco"

It's because they can not communicate like we do that we think they don't think like us. Complex vocal communication is their only real limitation.

[ZNFYRH]

Picking which gorilla she liked is not the same as recognizing shapes and patterns.

[Osborn F Enready]

Thanks for the clarification ZNYFRH, that was exactly what I was leading to.

I also agree about the issue of the chimps being trained on these tests for quite some time, while the humans are not.

[Praxius]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Picking which gorilla she liked is not the same as recognizing shapes and patterns.

Yes it is. We base attraction to visual symmetry of our bodies.... the more symmetrical, the more attractive and this isn't restricted to humans and apes, but all living species on this planet..... we reconize shapes, patterns and symmetry to determine something's worth and meaning to us..... we can get complicated and nit pick the finer details, but in a nut shell this is the foundation of procreation and trickles down the chain to many other aspects to our lives and what we do. Butterflies are known to judge who they mate with based on the colors and symmetry between the wngs of the partner. The more symetrical and more colorful, the greater chances they will procreate. Same with peacocks.

It's not just the fact that this gorilla picked a partner she liked, the point was that she used detailed sign language as to why she picked or not picked her partner..... personality so to speak.... intelligence..... the ability and desire to communicate to a species outside of her own. If this doesn't show a similar level of intelligence to us, then we have none ourselves.

[kingmea]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Chimps don't have to deal with what things mean, only what they look like. A chimp sees a shape. A human sees a number, an objective fact, a symbol of a numerical language. There is a lot here not being said.

That should make it esaier for the humans. It is easier to remember symbols that have meaning, rather than random shapes. For example, Chinese characters may all look the same to an average American, but a native Chinese person would be able to distinguish and remember them much easier. It actually makes the chimp's memory test even more outstanding if they don't know the meanings.

[Praxius]

A human sees a number, an objective fact, a symbol of a numerical language.

and apparently they do as well, as they hit each number in order, even when numbers in between were removed, they still understood the pattren and meaning of those numbers to a degree in which they got rewarded for getting it right..... much as we get rewarded with money from the ATM if we push our numbers in correctly based on what those numbers and their order means at the time.

[Osborn F Enready]

People, this fact is simple.

The more calculations taking place, the more time required.

The chimp is observing and reacting.

The person sees, computes, categorizes, analyzes as well as several other functions that take far more time than simple see and react.

People have to "train down" to achieve quicker reaction times, and it is a conscious effort to do so, because we are overequipped for such simple tasks.

[another day]

Extremely flawed study. I'm tired of these silly "media friendly" entertainment studies that are absolutly horrendously thought out. They come to conclusions without taking into consideration so many affecting factors. Reminds me of that one a month or so back that claimed girls like pink and boys like blue because of genetic, evolutionary traits, simply based on the fact that men and women who were tested preferred those colors.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready People, this fact is simple. The more calculations taking place, the more time required. The chimp is observing and reacting. The person sees, computes, categorizes, analyzes as well as several other functions that take far more time than simple see and react. People have to "train down" to achieve quicker reaction times, and it is a conscious effort to do so, because we are overequipped for such simple tasks.

Just because you think too much about something, doesn't mean you're still not "reacting" as well. One has to think in order to react, without thinking.... you're a veggie.

How much did you think about something when you were 4 or 5 years old? Now put that chimp in that position and train and nurture them for the same amount of time on similar tasks and see what happens.

[Osborn F Enready]

Prax, we just see the cause and effect differently.

I am not a specialist in this area, nor do I think are you?

I am just saying, as Another Day has also said.... this test is more media friendly BS, with so much not addressed, its about pointless.