The Internet or a Degree?

[triad]

Do you think average Joe, with a high school diploma only, could be as knowledgeable as an individual with a college/university degree on a said subject due to the internet?


Has the internet lead to the ability of one to research all aspects of one subject?


Basically, if someone goes to 4 years of university, does the resources the school they attended exceed that of the resources on the internet?

I gotta wonder if some guy in his basement can absorb and find as much information as someone in university - and become an expert on a certain subject. Is this possible in your mind? Has the internet evolved into a tool that can teach someone as much as, if not more, than an educational institution can?


I really see the internet as such a huge source of infinite information, that I could study the same material someone in university could - and save tens of thousands of dollars; I just wouldn't get a piece of paper saying I did it 'officially'.


Whats your thoughts on this?

[5010]

There's a difference between "book smart" and experience. For example, you can know a lot from a college engineering course or the internet, but you get some experience in the lab where you can apply the knowledge. Some degrees are more lab-oriented than others, so I suppose those would offer more experiencial knowledge than the internet.

Consider, for example, a chemistry major where you gain access to elements you aren't allowed to buy as an individual.

Wouldn't it be cool if universities allowed people to take only lab courses as an extension to self-teaching off the internet? Best of both worlds?

[triad]

Quote by: 5010 Wouldn't it be cool if universities allowed people to take only lab courses as an extension to self-teaching off the internet? Best of both worlds?

Ooooooo that would so cool! Pay-per-class university option, its friggen genious!


5010 you're on to something here, I would rather self-research and then apply what I found on my own in a class then be told what to research and apply that to the lab. It would be so much more personal and interesting and worth while.


Wow, what a good idea.

[Chaossaber314]

I take it you guys are not in college? You already can pay "per class". I don't know a University where you don't pay per hour. A 3 credit hour course costing more than a 1 hour course etc. You don't have to major in anything...

[Muckraker]

Quote by: triad Do you think average Joe, with a high school diploma only, could be as knowledgeable as an individual with a college/university degree on a said subject due to the internet? Has the internet lead to the ability of one to research all aspects of one subject? Basically, if someone goes to 4 years of university, does the resources the school they attended exceed that of the resources on the internet? I gotta wonder if some guy in his basement can absorb and find as much information as someone in university - and become an expert on a certain subject. Is this possible in your mind? Has the internet evolved into a tool that can teach someone as much as, if not more, than an educational institution can? I really see the internet as such a huge source of infinite information, that I could study the same material someone in university could - and save tens of thousands of dollars; I just wouldn't get a piece of paper saying I did it 'officially'. Whats your thoughts on this?

Knowledge on any subject is, for the most part, readily available for anyone but schools offer numerous avenues to learning that are not available through mere study of written materials online.

1. People learn differently. Some people will not learn from written word no matter how badly they may want to.

2. It helps being lumped in with groups of individuals who are going through the same learning experience you are.

3. Professors are already experts in the field and have accumulated a lot of helpful experience.

4. You will achieve hands-on opportunities not available at home.

5. A degree will allow you to advance to upper levels of education and careers that are not available to the self-taught individual, no matter how skilled they prove to be.

6. Regimented homework and penalties help to motivate individuals that suffer from a lack of natural motivation.

Motivation is a big key ingredient too. Motivation, and lack thereof, is the reason why a very small percentage of people are pro athletes, writers, and doctors, and a very large percentage of people do a minimal amount of menial labor for minimal pay, spend more money than they make, are morbidly obese, and die ultimately accomplishing next to nothing.

Employers often don't even consider high school dropouts because the inability to motivate oneself to complete that very basic, and free, educational opportunity is often a sign of ongoing problems with motivation and reliability.

To answer your question though, anyone can be "knowledgeable" on any subject that they research, even children. But if you want to partake of "applied knowledge" then many times you are forced to go the university route. You can't practice medicine legally without the appropriate degrees.

[5010]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 I take it you guys are not in college? You already can pay "per class". I don't know a University where you don't pay per hour. A 3 credit hour course costing more than a 1 hour course etc. You don't have to major in anything...

I was in college but never tried taking a lab without the course, especially the ones that I didn't satisfy the prerequisites for. Maybe I presume too much about restrictions.

[The Bacon Guy]

I don't believe that the internet contains the information needed for most degrees. I'm studying a five year chemistry course. I think I could have got the information for my first year from the net and maybe it could stretch to second year. After that, the course material is generally not found floating around the web.

Then there's the issue of the dubious credibility of some sites.

Also, universities have experienced personnel who can help you with specific problems, whereas the internet will only contain the general rules, if even that.

Practical work, at least for the course I'm doing, is also very important. I can read on the internet how to set up a Schlenk line or how to run an IR spectrum, but that won't necessarily translate into the ability unless the technique is practiced.

My particular course also involves a year-long industrial placement, which obviously would be unlikely without the university's aid.



One compromise that universities tend to give is online learning resources. They still give lectures, assign tutors, hold lab sessions etc. However, in addition to this, a set of lecture notes is posted online for each class. That way, people can learn either in the conventional way (which the university encourages), or by self-teaching from the online notes.

[Thanatos]

If I want I can learn advanced calculus or orbital physics or every detail of the human body and medicine known to science. Grammar and dictionaries in every language and more importantly people who actually speak all those languages to talk to! An English literature major would be hard; there are downloadable books to be found on the internet but most of them aren't free. Still, it could be done by somebody who knows where to look and is willing to pay for some downloadable .pdfs.

The only true impossibility I can think of is an internet-educated surgeon. There are some things you really should have direct experience with before you go out and do them, and neither the internet nor any number of textbooks are substitutes.

[Chris the Chees]

No, you can't. I'm at university doing my MA and if I could get away with just using the internet, as opposed to the library, seminars, etc, then I would. Even with all the online academic resources (which you have to subscribe for, or get your uni to pay for) such as JSTOR, you wouldn't have a hope. Tutors do a lot more than sit on their cheeks raking in the cash you know.

[Milton Bradley]

I believe certain subjects may lend themselves to online recources, like Political Science for example. One can certainly learn an awful lot about political science on the internet.

[rmnunez]

Research should be guided, faculty knows where you should start and which are the best sources.

[tivodan1116]

I don't think law school could be done online.

Yes, all of the statutes and many of the key cases can be found online, but there needs to be a dialog with others in order to learn how to READ those laws and cases and understand what they truly mean.

[Suburbanite]

I haven't learned anything in school since math and English. The education system in America is mediocre at best and has not been enough of a challenge for me that I can attribute much of what I know to it. However, other people seem to find it harder, so... I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky.

[triad]

I understand that the internet differs from university/college because it is literally just information and no execution. However, what if someone tested and applied the information on their own?

There are tons of ways to get free, self-proclaimed expert adivce. With things like wikipedia, you can start there then confirm it with googling and researching your first findings.

I just think the internet has made the ability of one to be well educated not limited to getting an institutional education.

[Praxius]

From what I learned in the three college deplomas I got, is that everything I learned in college, I could have learned online for free. I found online all the books we studied in PDF format, I found more detailed tutorials and exercises created by recent professionals in their fields, it's all there that you require to know.

The only thing that college really supplied was the time to sit down and do it. If you have free time on your hands, this would be just as equal.

If you needed to get ahold of someone online like a teacher to get you through something you are stuck on, there are online forums and support groups which specifically focus on one paticular thing, and most who are in these groups are proffessionals who are employed in what they do..... so there is no real difference.

About having a deploma or degree to give you a better chance at employment and good pay.... that's also a load of BS, as I had high marks in my courses, I was the student representative in one college, an after hours computer lab supervisor in another one, and I basically taught the last course I took, since the instructors were in the same classes as I were a few years back, and they were slack ass compared to me in instructing.

And with all this knowlege and experience, I spent two years looking for something steady in my field.

Nobody looks at the papers you have... they want to see your work and if you can do the job. Show them this, and you have it.

[triad]

Quote by: Praxius If you needed to get ahold of someone online like a teacher to get you through something you are stuck on, there are online forums and support groups which specifically focus on one paticular thing, and most who are in these groups are proffessionals who are employed in what they do..... so there is no real difference.

The fascinating thing about that is alomst every question thinkable has been asked before it even came to your head. Thats the beauty about the internet, it's the student and the tearchers writting one big book. How many times do you think a teachers gets asked the same question? Tons. On the internet, if you have a question, go to a search engine and type your question word for word (or number), and hit enter. Guaranteed you'll find either a direct match or a trail that will bring you to the answer. Its so crazy and cool

And with all this knowlege and experience, I spent two years looking for something steady in my field. Nobody looks at the papers you have... they want to see your work and if you can do the job. Show them this, and you have it.

[/quote]


Agreed. Diplomas are overrated, look at Einstein for example...

[gallo]

Quote by: triad Agreed. Diplomas are overrated, look at Einstein for example...

Are you talking about his diploma in physics and math from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich or his PhD from the University of Zurich?

[triad]

Quote by: gallo Are you talking about his diploma in physics and math from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich or his PhD from the University of Zurich?

Both. His degrees did nothing for him. Actually, after graduating from SFIT, he quit science for a year due to finding lectures and tests so intolerable in university that it gave him a buzz-kill. Mind you, he was only 16 - but he didn't need those diplomans considering he educated himself from the age of 15. If he educated himself without the internet, people in this day and age should be able to do so with the internet. Einstein was an exception because he was a genius, but with the resources we have on the internet - a 12 year old kid should be able to teach themself geometry just like Einstein did at that age without the internet.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: triad a 12 year old kid should be able to teach themself geometry just like Einstein did at that age without the internet.

I'm surprised you picked geometry - that is one of the most difficult subjects to learn on the internet, in my opinion, because of the benefits of three-dimensional study and being able to work through the problem live, with other people..



What about auditory learners? Not everyone learns well from reading.

I will concede that in certain subjects, for a certain very small subset of the population, the internet might do as good a job as an institution of higher learning, at least when combined with relevant independent study off of the internet (for example, field trips).

But, for the majority of subjects and the vast majority of people, organized education is superior to the internet.

[triad]

[quote=tivodan1116;447599]

What about auditory learners? Not everyone learns well from reading.

We are not far away from full-free online tutorial videos. There is already an overwhelming amount on the net - I am sure with time the internet will have more visual/auditory resources than a school could ever provide.

I will concede that in certain subjects, for a certain very small subset of the population, the internet might do as good a job as an institution of higher learning, at least when combined with relevant independent study off of the internet (for example, field trips). But, for the majority of subjects and the vast majority of people, organized education is superior to the internet.

I disagree. How many people like sitting in a classroom? I bet you didn't thoroughly enjoy being stuffed in a classroom all day. I agree, a group of people learning can accomplish a great deal of education, but what are they teaching in schools now? Why should everyone be told what to learn?

If there was a general guideline of how the schools curriculum worked, someone could pick the given subject then gather their own information and form their own opinion on it. Schools are too indoctrine-iny for my likeing. I would prefer people found their own resources and developed their own study on the matter. Just my opinion.