P2P sting operation exposed

[Gods_Mercenary]

Ahhh, yes, I had forgotten about the vast contributions the subscription porn industry made to film and literature.

Anyway, the moral/artsy objections make no difference, the market has spoken, people will simply not pay for a 3 minute sound bite when they can get it absolutely free literally without getting up from their chair.

[Thanatos]

Actually, as one of those who will be most deeply effected by the death of the big-budget porn industry, I propose that we all uninstall Ares immediately!

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chancellor But if an artist makes his living off his art then should he not reap the profits on the sale of his art? Leaving groups like Metallica out of it (because the "oh, they're super-rich so it's okay to steal from them" argument is not a valid argument), what about the garage band that is trying to sell its first CD?

True, an artist should be able to make a living off their art that they create.... that doesn't mean they diserve to be a millionare because of it.... and with continual restrictions and controll over your art, who can pay for it, who can listen to it, what countries you plan on releasing it in, reduces your exposure.

The Garage Bands around here, mostly spread their music online to share as it is. Nobody on the street normally goes and pays for some no-name band's CD off the street..... If you get it heard online, you reach a much better audience then what you could going door to door with record labels who only look at you if you got the money to invest, or they feel they can strangle you with a contract, because of your in-experience.

Most Garage bands around here, as I said in the above post of mine, go and tour, or perform in bars, stages, etc..... and sell their albums there where they perform. Those who came to the concert will most likely be more influenced in getting your album "AFTER" they hear the music.

Recently too many bands and artists have remained hidden in the studios, shooting out album after album, and expecting to make a living like that, but with todays way of life, they gotta get out there and meet the public, go on tours again, put a face to the audience and the artist and get that connection again..... that's where the money really is today.

And if you get your music online and shared across the globe, you will in turn have many more options for places to perform and expect a large audience to come.

If everyone is downloading the songs off the Internet for free then why should they bother to buy the CD?

Not everybody downloads all their music, as I still go and buy albums I have interest in. The thing about getting the albums is the fact you get the additional features and artwork supplied in the album, which can explain more about the songs, rather then just having the songs alone.

And if you do enjoy the artist or band you have downloaded, most normally go out and buy the albums still.....

But as mentioned before, the real money these days is in live performances and getting out there with the public..... and putting your music online is one of these ways.

Infact there are a few musicians who promote online downloading of their music..... of course I can't remember who exactly, as it was a few months ago I read about it..... but not all artists are in an uproar over online downloading.

Thus, the band doesn't make any money off its work. They can't go out on tour because the venues will think that since they haven't sold any CDs no one is going to like them (and, since they haven't sold any CDs they don't have any money to go on tour - it costs money to rent the use of a stadium or concert hall).

Most bands and artists now are setting themselves up with online purchases of their music too.... like ITunes, and other online companies which have their music available.

Some artists also find it a good thing for online downloading, because the sites that make you pay per song download give them more money then before in a sense. I remember one commenting that many people usually only like one or two songs in an album, and not the album itself, and those who don't want to pay full price for an album, can pay a smaller amount for the couple of tracks off the album they wanted.... thereby they still get some profit.

The online world and the music/movie industries are begining to merge together. Although online pirating of music is still quite rampant, I feel it still bennifits the artists in the long run.

[Praxius]

Oh.... and people talking about bad quality porn these days?

When the hell was it ever good to begin with?

Quite honestly, I like the online sharing of the stuff.... you get more amatures, more realistic sex, people one can relate to, not some blown up girl that has more plastic in her then a barbie doll...... and about as much acting skills at that.

I feel the internet has actually improved porn dramatically, and has demolished the BS Hollywood crap porn, which even as a young teenager stumbling apon them, felt they were crap.

If anything, the internet has open the door to much more variety and selection when it comes to this category.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Ahhh, yes, I had forgotten about the vast contributions the subscription porn industry made to film and literature. Anyway, the moral/artsy objections make no difference, the market has spoken, people will simply not pay for a 3 minute sound bite when they can get it absolutely free literally without getting up from their chair.

Love the use of "get it." Nice rhetorical strategy. I think I will go "get" some money from the bank now - ie rob the bank.

Again, the primary reason someone would steal the 3 minute sound clip is because they can do so without any fear of suffering consequences. It has nothing to do with the quality of what is being stolen, how much money the creator is or is not making off of the product, or how much money the thief can or cannot afford to spend on "luxuries."

[Muckraker]

Quote by: Praxius True, an artist should be able to make a living off their art that they create.... that doesn't mean they diserve to be a millionare because of it.... and with continual restrictions and controll over your art, who can pay for it, who can listen to it, what countries you plan on releasing it in, reduces your exposure. The Garage Bands around here, mostly spread their music online to share as it is. Nobody on the street normally goes and pays for some no-name band's CD off the street..... If you get it heard online, you reach a much better audience then what you could going door to door with record labels who only look at you if you got the money to invest, or they feel they can strangle you with a contract, because of your in-experience. Most Garage bands around here, as I said in the above post of mine, go and tour, or perform in bars, stages, etc..... and sell their albums there where they perform. Those who came to the concert will most likely be more influenced in getting your album "AFTER" they hear the music. Recently too many bands and artists have remained hidden in the studios, shooting out album after album, and expecting to make a living like that, but with todays way of life, they gotta get out there and meet the public, go on tours again, put a face to the audience and the artist and get that connection again..... that's where the money really is today. And if you get your music online and shared across the globe, you will in turn have many more options for places to perform and expect a large audience to come. Not everybody downloads all their music, as I still go and buy albums I have interest in. The thing about getting the albums is the fact you get the additional features and artwork supplied in the album, which can explain more about the songs, rather then just having the songs alone. And if you do enjoy the artist or band you have downloaded, most normally go out and buy the albums still..... But as mentioned before, the real money these days is in live performances and getting out there with the public..... and putting your music online is one of these ways. Infact there are a few musicians who promote online downloading of their music..... of course I can't remember who exactly, as it was a few months ago I read about it..... but not all artists are in an uproar over online downloading. Most bands and artists now are setting themselves up with online purchases of their music too.... like ITunes, and other online companies which have their music available. Some artists also find it a good thing for online downloading, because the sites that make you pay per song download give them more money then before in a sense. I remember one commenting that many people usually only like one or two songs in an album, and not the album itself, and those who don't want to pay full price for an album, can pay a smaller amount for the couple of tracks off the album they wanted.... thereby they still get some profit. The online world and the music/movie industries are begining to merge together. Although online pirating of music is still quite rampant, I feel it still bennifits the artists in the long run.

Fundamental flaw in your argument is that you are banking on the "starving artist" being so consumed by a desire to create that they give up basic needs such as food and housing.

The fact of the matter is that many great bands break up because they are unable to break through and make a living off of their music. They can self promote all they want and have a growing fanbase but if those fans refuse to show their support by shelling out a few bucks then the band is not making money. This leads to band members having to hold "day jobs" which is often a detriment to their ability to perform in a band. The same applies to all other art forms and forms of entertainment.

Money talks. A lack of money in the business world is equal to a lack of support. If you are running a charity for children afflicted with Entitilitis and you push a hard campaign for two years and only dredge up $100 in donations then that, assuming you are capable of running a charity, is a pretty clear sign that people don't care about kids with the disease.

Many of the old time artists died broke and with no attention paid to their works, let alone money. If you like what you see, in art, entertainment, or porn, then you need to wipe the cobwebs off the old wallet and shuck out a few bucks.

It seems like many people nowadays feel they are somehow "entitled" to be entertained for free. Not sure where that is coming from but it is surely an indefensible position. Creators create and paying consumers support the creations and the creators. Payment can come in the form of cash or in the form of being exposed to other products and services that you may be inclined to pay cash for.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Love the use of "get it." Nice rhetorical strategy. I think I will go "get" some money from the bank now - ie rob the bank. Again, the primary reason someone would steal the 3 minute sound clip is because they can do so without any fear of suffering consequences. It has nothing to do with the quality of what is being stolen, how much money the creator is or is not making off of the product, or how much money the thief can or cannot afford to spend on "luxuries."

No the primary reason is because it's a desirable product and it's free, though the lack of real consequences for the vast majority also play a part, and a flash drive can usually take care of any illicit files on my computer. and the internet is far too much of a wild west, and looks to be for some time, for any truly effective consequences to be delivered consistently, another difference is that the guys who are innovating the net tend to be the ones finding ways to mass distribute files. I don't care how much money I have, It's simply easier to go onto a filesharing site to get my music.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Muckraker Fundamental flaw in your argument is that you are banking on the "starving artist" being so consumed by a desire to create that they give up basic needs such as food and housing.

I know what its like being one of those so-called "starving artists" esspecially when I spent two years looking for a steady job in my proffession..... I have no flaw in my thinking, as I have lived that life.... the solution is to get a part time job until you get to where you want to go. Not everybody is Elvis.

When you come to people downloading a popular album off the internet, 90% of those albums are from people already situated in their lives and carrers and are nowhere near a starving artist.

Most of these Starving Artists you speak of who are just getting started, really have nothing to worry about with online pirating, considdering most don't have any contracts, their albums are limited because they created themselves/independantly, so the only people able to listen to their music at that time are those who goto the concerts or buy their albums when they are around. At this point, the internet can be a benifit for sharing your music because it gives you a bigger audience.

You still have online radio stations who can play them, give you airtime, and gradually a record label (which many these days do keep an ear on the internet radio for such new sounds) will pick them up, hear they're really good, they got a big popularity online, and have no contract...... Boom.... they get ahold of them, sign the papers, they're now rich.

The fact of the matter is that many great bands break up because they are unable to break through and make a living off of their music.

Examples of some Great bands which broke up due to Online Downloads specifically?

They can self promote all they want and have a growing fanbase but if those fans refuse to show their support by shelling out a few bucks then the band is not making money.

Then they're not really fans now are they? Much like friends. If you have a band that you personally have great interest in and you like their music, normally you would go and help them out by buying their albums, DVDs, going to their concerts, etc.

I know I do.

This leads to band members having to hold "day jobs" which is often a detriment to their ability to perform in a band. The same applies to all other art forms and forms of entertainment.

Gee..... having to take on two jobs like everybody else and not being able to afford that big mansion and limo? darn *snaps fingers*

Money talks. A lack of money in the business world is equal to a lack of support. If you are running a charity for children afflicted with Entitilitis and you push a hard campaign for two years and only dredge up $100 in donations then that, assuming you are capable of running a charity, is a pretty clear sign that people don't care about kids with the disease.

Indeed, and it would also show that people don't like your music if they are not willing to pay for it.

The issue here it seems is you don't seem to have encountered too many reports on some bands that can thank their fame and fortune on online sharing. In fact I believe it was about two or three years ago, right around that Rockstar show was on TV, that there was another TV show which was also in connection to a web site, where many unknown bands and artists were submitting their work on the site and those who got the most listens got to perform on TV and work their way up..... although I can not remember the show off hand, since I never really bothered to watch it all the way through.

Many of the old time artists died broke and with no attention paid to their works, let alone money. If you like what you see, in art, entertainment, or porn, then you need to wipe the cobwebs off the old wallet and shuck out a few bucks.

Which I do.... but I'm not about to go out and blindly buy another album that later on I'll realize sucks chunks..... like that Chris Gains CD..... if I had the opportunity to listen to it prior to buying it, I might not have wasted my money on something I hate...... stupid Garth Brooks.

It seems like many people nowadays feel they are somehow "entitled" to be entertained for free. Not sure where that is coming from but it is surely an indefensible position. Creators create and paying consumers support the creations and the creators. Payment can come in the form of cash or in the form of being exposed to other products and services that you may be inclined to pay cash for.

Now see there's a misunderstanding..... I still feel that for entertainment I should pay for it, of course..... but clearly not as much as I am paying out of my arse today.

The last movie I decided to go see was with my Ex, and just the two tickets alone to watch an hour and a half movie, came to $22..... and that's before I even get to the $10 bag of popcorn.

I feel the internet has helped taken a notch out of this monopoly of our entertainment, and if they're gonna charge you about the same price watching the movie once with hundreds of other people, as they do buying the DVD when it comes out, then I don't see the logic.