Attack on science.

[Technosoul]

The Creationists are moving in on your sceientific turf and wish to claim it in the name of God.

Here is one of their invading tactics.

Got any comments or do you wish to present a debate to debunk their claims?

See link first.

Creation Evolution, and Science Ministries

[Technosoul]

Here is the science theory they find lacking in proof or that they wish to disprove.

Grand Canyon National Park, A Quick Look

Now for debate purposes you can take a little free ride with the Creationists and learn why they dis-agree with the above link.
(please do not rock the boat on our way through the rapids).

Seeing Creation and Evolution in Grand Canyon - New York Times

[ryanatau]

If God is needed to create the Grand Canyon, which I think you are claiming, why would God create are there even bigger canyons on unpopulated planets such as Valles Marineris on Mars?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: ryanatau If God is needed to create the Grand Canyon, which I think you are claiming, why would God create are there even bigger canyons on unpopulated planets such as Valles Marineris on Mars?

I did not make the claim, the claim was made by Creationists who want to prove that earth was created in 7 days. An attack on the "old earth theory" which they claim " is just a theory ".

It seems that creationist-scientist bebates end up with one side saying "it's just a theory and not fact" and the other side saying "it's only faith and not fact". Progressing beyond that point is seldom ventured.

Now for you question about why God would make a bigger valley on another planet, you would need to track down Texasdave and ask him, I don't have a clue.

[Jack]

why would God create are there even bigger canyons on unpopulated planets such as Valles Marineris on Mars?

Practice.

How can a thinking person debate a mindset that considers anything that might cause them to question the myth of creationism as fabricated while at the same time devising such elaborate schemes on the part of their god? (I'm thinking especially of creating fossils and canyons.)

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Isherwood Practice. How can a thinking person debate a mindset that considers anything that might cause them to question the myth of creationism as fabricated while at the same time devising such elaborate schemes on the part of their god? (I'm thinking especially of creating fossils and canyons.)

For a moment I will pretend to take their position. They asked Jesus why he spoke in riddles, and as I recall he said he did it so they cannot understand what he said, not to confuse the disciples.

So perhaps God created a few riddles to confuse "them". Where-as His elected would see the clear facts the scientists would think something else, or would be dumbfounded. Is the Grand Canyon such a riddle? Or the "Face on Mars". Why would God put a human face on Mars with pyramid objects around it? Because they speak in riddles? So is the Grand Canyon proof that the Dinvine often express their self in riddles and paranormal mysteries?

Now back to me - I don't know the answer to that question. Now if you asked me about Mother Nature then I could think of a answer. As Mother Nature is not a mythological supernatural.

[Kuldeep]

I do not believe in creationism !!! I feel universe is Eternal and infinite. Earth is one finite thing we live on and Mars is another, where nothing lives as we understand life is. There may a different type of lifem, which we can not concieve with our gifted senses and developed tools.
Further I consider the whole universe as properties of SOMETHING, which you guys call GOD !

Why to attack science, let it fulfill its duty of knowing the unknown. I love to grasp science as well as want to know the power behind the universe !!!

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kuldeep I do not believe in creationism !!! I feel universe is Eternal and infinite. Earth is one finite thing we live on and Mars is another, where nothing lives as we understand life is. There may a different type of lifem, which we can not concieve with our gifted senses and developed tools. Further I consider the whole universe as properties of SOMETHING, which you guys call GOD ! Why to attack science, let it fulfill its duty of knowing the unknown. I love to grasp science as well as want to know the power behind the universe !!!

Then you do not agree that science is correct in establishing a timeframe as to how long the earth has been here? Or that life was not always here but evolved from chemicals?

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Technosoul Then you do not agree that science is correct in establishing a timeframe as to how long the earth has been here? Or that life was not always here but evolved from chemicals?

That part, which Science has found out or trying to find out is a very small finite portion of infinite cycles of manifestations and destructions of not only our universe but number of such universes. I say that THAT HUGE INFINITE CYCLE is eternal.

How can I deny the facts science is placing before us with solid proofs??

I can only say this physical manifestation is not the end of whole mistery. EVEN IN OUR FINITE LIFE SPAN, Meta-physical world with emotions, feelings and mind etc is there, about which science may not be able to reach in another millenium !!! My simple reason to believe all this, is the Saints performing unexplained miracles, even I myself got few times some intutions which happened exactly same way as I felt earlier. One such example is attack on Kashmiri Pandits by Millitants and driving them out of Kashmir Valley in Dec. 1989. I watched similar scene in dream in the night of 3rd July 1989. when I was about 2.500 Km away in Assam. I had no prior knowlegde of any disturbance in the Valley. I know Science would term it a chance or probability. But, I would call it unbiased thinking and purity of mind, which catches future informational waves intentionally or even un-intetionally !!!

[Technosoul]

I would agree to the circular concept for many reasons. As the only goal is to complete the circle otherwise we are going nowhere in particular.
The circular design is the only logical motion for the totality of exsistance. And, if the universe is not logical then we cannot employ logic to figure it out.

Now the shape of the earth is a circular globe that moves in a circular orbit around the sun that has a circular shape. Of course this "crop circle" of designs can have other designs within it.

Those circles are demonstrated physically.

In philosophy we know that we awaken form sleep, move around and then return to sleep, that would form a circular activity of returning to the point of orgin as an ending. The next day the circle is repeated.

If this is a correct theory that simular prinicples apply to everything then space-time is not flat, it curves, and so eventurally time-space would look in design like a gaint circular globe. So a journey to the end of time-space would return you right here to planet earth.

Circular moton also has a center of relative stillness (non-motion) that is kind of a source also around which exsistance evolves, from which existance possibally unfoleded to become larger or more complex circles of diversity. Returning mentally to that center of stillness within would consitute a spiritual journey to complete a religious pilgramage (circle) so that one is reborn into another spiritual journey.

Once a motion is established in a circular momentum it could potentally continue circulating forever. However a circle might have a starting point, or orgin, before the design of the circle is completed from point A to point A. If you have some paper with nothing on it you could start with a tiny dot and make a mark in a circle until you get back around to that tiny dot. At which point the circle then becomes seamless and therefore eternal because you could continue to follow the mark around and around forever. The blank paper would represent no-thingness. If point A does not return to point A then you start with nothing and end up nothing, or nowhere.

So did the circle start off or was it always in effect without a beginning?
Did the earth really have it's very first orbit around the sun or is this as it always was and always shall be? Are we involved in a circle of creation or a circle that always exsisted? For even if the circle is now seamless and unending the first circle might have had a start and a finish.

Time might play a role in this philosopy theory, when we draw that circle on a blank page we would start off at one moment in time but when we finished the drawing and the end becomes the beginning - it would be at a later time. However if you use the numbers on a clock that is shaped like a circle then you could start off at 12 PM and end at 12 AM. Then continue to 12 PM again. But is 12PM yesterday the same as 12PM today?

[Kuldeep]

At the outset, I thank you to be the first person to understand what I wanted to say !

Now your question: "Is there a possibility of origin and partial completion or start of first ever circle of GIANT CYCLE??"

To understand the answer for this, you have to be a bit of metaphysical. Origin is the Universal Consciousness because of which the giant cycle continues eternally with no begining or end. Further, origin does not exist at the centre of the Giant cycle, but exists in whole of the area of the giant cycle. Exactly the same way, as your Individual Consciousness (YOU) exist in every atom of your body. Therefore, to my mind there can be no orgin or first cycle, second or third cycle of the giant cycle. Giant cycle exists eternally containinging universal consciousness with WHOLE OF IT !!!!

However, I feel for any sub-cycles; say for example "OUR EXISTING UNIVERSE", OUR SOLAR SYSTEM, OUR EARTH, BIO-LIFE, ANIMALS AND HUMANS....ETC. ETC. all could have separate begining as proposed by science through BB, Evolution etc. Naturally anythinfg which has a begining would have an end also. Obviously, therefore, time /space for all such sub-cycles do exist !!!!!

[Technosoul]

Within the anonymous essence of no-thingness the first thought occured which sparked other related thoughts.

The collective thoughts formulated a stream of thoughts that orbited around their still center of nothingness. The stream of thoughts became the mind of the most high. The link between nothing and something.

The consciousness is non-tangable but existed, and did not need space to exist in because it is not tangable.

Reflecting inwardly at the it's still center of absolute nothingness it became aware of it's own existance "I am that I think I am". A mind wishes to have a relationship with other minds, but looking outwardly at the nothingness it asked "am I alone, is their any other intelligent minds out there?" But there was none.

So the mind divided into a left side and a right side and communicated with it's self. The female side being the imagination, and the male side being the logical side. They mated and had an idea.

The desire to be creative generated thought impuses that radeated forth to produce a force filed of impluses. The force field is "time".

Stronger impulses forced prior but weaker impulses to double back over in the river of time to create circular motion, like whirlpools, and the circular motion I will call "energy". As the circular motion of that energy imploded and impacted upon it's center of "nowness" it exploded as light energy, namely the sun. That 'big bang" effect was duplicated at different locations in the stream of time to effect many suns, called stars.

The impulses as the force field continued to feed the sun with energy to maintain the nuclear energy of light energy so the sun became a constant. At that moment the fact that the stars existed in the tangable they occupied space. And so space became the relative contrast for the objects. And space became the relative darkness compared to the light of the sun. But contained dark energy from the stars ( suns ).

Through processes best explained scientifically the dark energy collected into balls of compacted energy and via processes became solid matter as the planets. which likewise occupied space and time.

Life is the combining of the four primaries. Consciousness + Time + Energy + solid Matter = Life.

Therefore the original Mind of the Most High was no longer alone, and once the natural little minds of life learned to communicate with the Original Mind then the circular purpose of creation would be complete.

We are not alone.