Unlimited Free Energy - Now

[dilligras]

Quote by: deepk Why not build huge solar power stations across all the the deserts. Not only these areas would develop because of the employment generated but the sparsely populated deserts will be put to good use.

Here is the largest system I could find:

Directory:Stirling Energy Systems - PESWiki

It's bigger than all the others combined.

[Sugar]

What I meant from using the term wastepaper basket that most of these ideas do not come to being put in use. I am not against human ingenuity of developing ideas. We need to put these ideas to productive use for the benefit of all.

[medi]

not all ideas are bad. Its all human mind which churns out wonders. It is upon us to identify the idea wich can be put to practical use and last but not the least economically.

[Sugar]

The idea must be paractical as well as economical in use.

[insanegloss]

Quote by: Sugar The idea must be paractical as well as economical in use.

True, and that's where solar panels in the desert falls down (at the moment). It isn't really economically viable, the cells themselves aren't only very inefficient (around 10-15%) they are notoriously expensive to produce. So to get a return (carbon and monetary) you would be waiting a while for it to happen.

In the future however, i know people who are trying to get photovoltaic cells to use the mechanism similar to plants (around ~80% efficient) to generate the electricity. They have the potential to answer the question of the efficiency of the cells.

[deepk]

I just read a news that in Abu Dabhi they are building a mini city which can accommodate 50000 persons which is totally GREEN as it is fully dependent only on solar and wind power. Its just does not use any oil/coal based electricity. I think that is the right step in the right direction.

[nmspl]

yes I also read the news. The whole city will not use a drop of oil and even fuel based cars are not allowed entry into the planned city.

[dilligras]

Here is an internal combustion engine that is 100% environmentally safe, because it has NO exhaust, burns NO fuel, and is completely sealed.

It could even run in space....indefinitely.

The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine


As you were.

[dilligras]

Progress report:
Some of you may recall that I mentioned having a Corvair van that I wanted to restore, then convert it to run on hydrogen, supplied on demand by hydrolysis of water.

On a monday morning around 0430 hrs, my golf buddy and I took his 1-ton van and hooked up a trailer and went to Mom's to get the Corvair. It had been sitting in a field for nearly two decades, so just getting useable tires to roll it up onto the trailer took about three hours and two trips to town.

Most of the trip back was uneventful, and the 1-ton pulled the loaded trailer easily. About 30 mins from the fenced compound behind the museum which was our destination, it started raining intermittently, with a nearly constant drizzle in between.

Now, it wasn't too long ago that I kept my commercial license with hazmat current, so I didn't think an occasional sprinkle would cause much trouble.

I was wrong.

It hadn't rained in several weeks, so there was an oil residue build-up on the roads that quickly turned into an emulsion that rivals lard as a means of reducing friction between two normally adhesive surfaces. Naturally, all of this occurs to me as we're sliding into an intersection where the light had turned red about 20 yards before we arrived-- doing about 15 mph, and slowly losing speed as I pumped frantically on the brakes to alleviate the locked-wheel aspect of the slide.

Also quite naturally, it was about twenty feet into the slide that I realized the ABS system on my friend's van was malfunctioning, and that the only way to slow this train enough to keep from sliding into some poor unsuspecting motorist, was to pump the brakes myself.

Anyway, we only went halfway through the intersection, with no jack-knifing, and the lights were only green for the left-turn lanes, so as soon as they emptied, I slowly started up and continued through before the oncoming crosstraffic got a chance to go.

Long story short, the restoration may now begin. I'll post a link to photos of the van later.

Maybe I should start a blog about it.


As you were, petroleum junkies.

[dilligras]

Here's a short slideshow of the Corvair.... it was my "hippie van", back in the late '70's.

Slideshow of Medium Show - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

To make a modern car run on hydrogen would require alterations to the onboard computer, which is illegal because the computer controls engine emissions.

My old van can legally be converted, since it doesn't have a computer and is not covered by emissions restrictions.

The irony is that the only emission will be water, once the conversion is done.


Carry on.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: dilligras Settled? Oh....I see. You just want to ridicule anything new that comes along, without even reviewing it. Once the same ilk of "scientist" that ridiculed Einstein has accepted it, then you will deign to submit your approval........no doubt while STILL unreviewed by yourself. :rolleyes:

Classic!!! The heretic fallacy.

Heresy does not equal truth. "They laughed at Galileo! They laughed at the Wright Brothers! They laughed at Einstein!"

Yeah, well, they also laughed at the Marx Brothers. Merely because you are laughed at does not imply scientific truth.

Free energy/over-unity devices are baloney, every single one of them.

[dilligras]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Classic!!! The heretic fallacy. Heresy does not equal truth. "They laughed at Galileo! They laughed at the Wright Brothers! They laughed at Einstein!" Yeah, well, they also laughed at the Marx Brothers. Merely because you are laughed at does not imply scientific truth. Free energy/over-unity devices are baloney, every single one of them.

Well, not quite. I don't see anything in what you quoted where I assert that anyone's disbelief (laughter) was proof of anything. I only noted that it would be better to actually review something before dismissing it out of hand.

As for your opinion on free energy/over-unity devices, thank you for sharing.


As you were.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: dilligras Well, not quite. I don't see anything in what you quoted where I assert that anyone's disbelief (laughter) was proof of anything.

Unlimited Free Energy - Now

In that post, you and the creator of this so-called perpetual motion machine, whom you quote, both intone that the invention is similar to Einstein's theory of relativity in that it was initially ridiculed, but later found to be one of the greatest advancements of all time.

Many concepts, like your perpetual motion machine, were ridiculed from the start and will continue to be ridiculed forever because they are ridiculous.

I only noted that it would be better to actually review something before dismissing it out of hand.

I read the silly webpages you linked to. There's not a lot to review. It is impossible for a device to have greater than 100% efficiency. He claims his devices have over 1000% efficiency. He does this in part by simply changing, without scientific basis as such, the formula for horsepower. Since he's getting incorrect horsepower numbers it's no wonder he thinks he has a miracle on his hands.

Again, over 100% efficiency is impossible. That is what would be required for a device to generate more power than it uses - the over-unity definition.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: dilligras Here is an internal combustion engine that is 100% environmentally safe, because it has NO exhaust, burns NO fuel, and is completely sealed. It could even run in space....indefinitely.

Let's hear from Feynman on this:

"There were quite a few wires running from the engine down to where Mr. Papp and the spectators were standing, into a set of instruments used for measurement; these included a variac, a variable transformer with a dial which could put out different voltages. The instruments were, in turn, connected by a cord to an electrical outlet in the side of the building. So it was pretty obvious where the power supply was.

The engine started to go around, and there was a bit of disappointment: the propeller of the fan went around quietly without the noise of an ordinary engine with powerful explosions in the cylinders, and everything- it looked very much like an electric motor.

Mr. Papp pulled the plug from the wall, and the fan propeller continued to turn. 'You see, this cord has nothing to do with the engine; it's only supplying power to the instruments,' he said. Well, that was easy. He's got a storage battery inside the engine. 'Do you mind if I hold the plug?' I asked? 'Not at all,' replied Mr. Papp, and he handed it to me.

It wasn't very long before he asked me to give me back the plug. 'I'd like to hold it a little longer,' I said, figuring that if I stalled around enough, the damn thing would stop.

Pretty soon Mr. Papp was frantic, so I (Richard Feynman) gave him back the plug and he plugged it back into the wall. A few moments later there was a big explosion:"
Feynman on Papp

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Zeebadee Let's hear from Feynman on this: "There were quite a few wires running from the engine down to where Mr. Papp and the spectators were standing, into a set of instruments used for measurement; these included a variac, a variable transformer with a dial which could put out different voltages. The instruments were, in turn, connected by a cord to an electrical outlet in the side of the building. So it was pretty obvious where the power supply was. The engine started to go around, and there was a bit of disappointment: the propeller of the fan went around quietly without the noise of an ordinary engine with powerful explosions in the cylinders, and everything- it looked very much like an electric motor. Mr. Papp pulled the plug from the wall, and the fan propeller continued to turn. 'You see, this cord has nothing to do with the engine; it's only supplying power to the instruments,' he said. Well, that was easy. He's got a storage battery inside the engine. 'Do you mind if I hold the plug?' I asked? 'Not at all,' replied Mr. Papp, and he handed it to me. It wasn't very long before he asked me to give me back the plug. 'I'd like to hold it a little longer,' I said, figuring that if I stalled around enough, the damn thing would stop. Pretty soon Mr. Papp was frantic, so I (Richard Feynman) gave him back the plug and he plugged it back into the wall. A few moments later there was a big explosion:" Feynman on Papp

Interesting. It was silent? Jets of uniform silvery stuff shot out? Large explosion? If I had to guess at what went wrong, the device was running off highly compressed gas. The thing probably overheated from friction, and heat and highly compressed gases don't mix well.

Air engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Athena]

Quote by: Fonceai I got into it with someone over the possibility of a simple electromagnetic generator that, using the right combination and quality of wiring and magnets, could power itself and still have power to spare. The math all works out, based on real materials, but I'm still told it's impossible.

Trains using magnetism already exist. The US is behind in this technology.

Indeed, the Maglev is faster than any speeding locomotive precisely because it's as much like a plane as any railroad we've known. True, the train has no wings, but no wheels or engine, either. Transrapid, the German firm that developed the system, describes the Maglev as "the first fundamental innovation in the field of railway technology since the invention of the railway." Magnets are the attraction. First, powerful magnets lift the entire train about 10 millimeters above the special track, called a guideway, since it mainly directs the passage of the train. Other magnets provide propulsion, and braking, and the speeds - up to 500 kph in test runs; a good 60 percent faster than the renowned Bullet Trains - are attained largely due to the reduction of friction. Is there a need for such speed? Certainly not on such a short sprint, barely 30 kilometers from the subway in Pudong to the airport. And not at the cost, note critics. The Pudong line, which should go into operation by the end of this year, is unlikely to ever recoup its $1.2 billion investment. A high-speed link between Beijing and Shanghai, among several additional Chinese lines under consideration, might cost $22-30 billion, or nearly as much as China intends to invest in all rail infrastructure nationwide in its current five-year plan. Not a bird or plane, just Shanghai's new Maglev, the world's fastest train

[dilligras]

Quote by: Zeebadee Let's hear from Feynman on this: "There were quite a few wires running from the engine down to where Mr. Papp and the spectators were standing, into a set of instruments used for measurement; these included a variac, a variable transformer with a dial which could put out different voltages. The instruments were, in turn, connected by a cord to an electrical outlet in the side of the building. So it was pretty obvious where the power supply was. The engine started to go around, and there was a bit of disappointment: the propeller of the fan went around quietly without the noise of an ordinary engine with powerful explosions in the cylinders, and everything- it looked very much like an electric motor. Mr. Papp pulled the plug from the wall, and the fan propeller continued to turn. 'You see, this cord has nothing to do with the engine; it's only supplying power to the instruments,' he said. Well, that was easy. He's got a storage battery inside the engine. 'Do you mind if I hold the plug?' I asked? 'Not at all,' replied Mr. Papp, and he handed it to me. It wasn't very long before he asked me to give me back the plug. 'I'd like to hold it a little longer,' I said, figuring that if I stalled around enough, the damn thing would stop. Pretty soon Mr. Papp was frantic, so I (Richard Feynman) gave him back the plug and he plugged it back into the wall. A few moments later there was a big explosion:" Feynman on Papp

That's all well and good, but you left out a few things:

(excerpt)
"Two Explosions, One Death
Apart from the intense contemporary work to resurrect the Papp engine in its full cycling functionality and the independent certification test in 1983 (see p. 9), what other proof is there that Papp's engine was for real? Sad to say, this evidence is the death of one person and the severe injury of three others at a public demonstration of the engine on November 18, 1968 in Gardena, California. At that event, the engine exploded with an evident energy release that no internal combustion engine could touch. Read the eyewitness testimony of engineer Cecil Baumgartner (p. 31) in my interview with him this year. He was representing the top management of the TRW aerospace corporation that day.

he previous month (on October 27, 1968) Baumgartner and others had observed one of the detonation cylinders of the engine test fired in the California desert. In full public view, just a few cubic centimeters of noble gas had been admitted with a hypodermic needle to the sparking chamber, and this made the thick steel-walled chamber peel back like a banana when the device was electrically triggered.

The collaborating observers from the Naval Underseas Warfare Laboratory (as the Pasadena, California lab was then called), who attended the desert test, had earlier sealed the chamber so that Papp or others could not insert illicit explosives as part of a hoax. Their names, according to Baumgartner, were: William White, Edmund Karig, and James Green.

Feynman's Mistakes and the Recovery
But at the public meeting the next month at which the fatality occurred (see the local newspaper account of the fatality and injuries-p. 30) was Caltech physicist Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), who had worked on the Manhattan atomic bomb project in World War II. Before even arriving at the demonstration, Feynman assumed that the Papp engine, whose operation he was about to witness, had to be part of an elaborate hoax. We know this because he recounted his reactions during the episode in his widely circulated internet account touted by the "skeptic" community (see "Mr. Papf's (sic) Perpetual Motion Machine," p. 29).

But here is the central problem with Feynman's analysis (which has many other errors of fact and logic embedded in it): There was a court action against Feynman by Papp and his backer, Don Roser of Environetics, Inc., as a result of Feynman's inept attempt to disprove the Papp engine with his unauthorized pulling of an electric control-circuit wire that Feynman egregiously imagined had to be powering the engine. It was unfortunate for Feynman that the wire's gauge was far too thin even had there been a secret electric motor within the retrofit Volvo engine. Furthermore, as you will read, the engine kept running even after the flimsy wire was removed. Feynman asserted that Papp most likely had deliberately planned to blow up his own engine to avoid subsequent discovery of the "fraud"! And, Feynman acknowledges that there was an out-of-court settlement with Caltech. Surely, had there ever been the slightest piece of evidence that conventional explosives blew up the Papp engine that day, Caltech would most certainly not have had to settle.

Papp would soon have been charged with manslaughter, no doubt, and Feynman would surely have cited this evidence publicly. He was not one to shrink from dramatic gestures. Caltech also had the motive and the means to skewer Papp with the kind of evidence that is routinely gathered by police departments and crime labs following explosion accidents."



As you were.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: dilligras That's all well and good, but you left out a few things:

Wrong, I didn't leave all that out. I was quoting Feynman, you're quoting from an entirely different source.

I especially like Feynman's last line:

"And, of course, nothing has been heard of Mr. Papp's new engine since."

[dilligras]

Quote by: Zeebadee Wrong, I didn't leave all that out. I was quoting Feynman, you're quoting from an entirely different source.

Feynman left it out, you quoted him, ergo, you left it out. But if he was right, why did they settle out of court when Papp sued? Could it be because they knew if Papp proved the explosion was Feynman's fault, the victim's family could also sue? Nawww, that couldn't be it. A corporate entity avoiding punitive damages? That never happens, eh? :rolleyes:

I especially like Feynman's last line: "And, of course, nothing has been heard of Mr. Papp's new engine since."

Tell it to Mr. Sabori.

Jimmy Sabori's Papp Engine Video



As you were.

[Zeebadee]

"For six years in Montreal, Joseph Papp's Hungarian friends watched as he spent all his time and money building his dream machine: a 28-foot, torpedo-shaped submarine that would use a secret atomic fuel to propel itself at high speeds. Papp built the sub, of steel and aluminum, in a friend's garage under strict secrecy. "Joseph didn't trust anybody, not even his wife," a friend said. In August 1966 it was completed; he showed it off to television reporters. A few days later, Helen Papp called the police to report that her husband and his submarine were missing.

French military authorities found Papp bobbing in a rubber raft off Brest, babbling about having crossed the ocean in eight hours.

Papp was the toast of two continents --- until his story started falling apart. A man looking like Joseph Papp, and using his passport, had flown from Montreal to Paris the night Papp had disappeared. A Paris-to-Brest train ticket was in Papp's pocket when he was found.

The London Daily Mirror said Papp admitted it was a stunt, that he couldn't bear to admit to his friends that the submarine wouldn't work. "
Joseph Papp: Noble Gas Engine (US Patent 4,428,193, etc)