Does marijuana make you stupid?

[nm420]

Quote by: pikatore You don't sniff coke to get somewhere else quickly. What the hell kind of comparison is that?!

Well, in a sense, you do. It's just that place is a state of mind instead of a physical location. And coke will get you to your destination a lot faster than an automobile will...

[pikatore]

Quote by: nm420 Well, in a sense, you do. It's just that place is a state of mind instead of a physical location. And coke will get you to your destination a lot faster than an automobile will...

...

[brien]

You obviously aren't educated in chemistry, so I'll try to be specific

You obviously aren't educated at all.

Your position is one held from ignorance of the specific effects of those substances. you can't hold those particular principles as correct before you actually learn about the technical details of the drugs involved, and realise the DIFFERENCES between each drug.

My position is one of logic and sensibility, not a knee JERK reaction from someone who pretends to be the guru of Chemistry and Medicine. Spare us the psuedo intellectual lectures on the dangers of drugs and consider your own pot smoking before you go off lecturing us on the dangers of drugs. Perhaps you should refrain from smoking marajuana for a while and reconsider you hypocritical position on this matter. We are all aware of the consequences of ingesting illegal drugs.

What the hell kind of comparison is that?!

It is a comparison that follows your logic.

Since you aren't paying attention to what I write, I will state my position is again. It is hypocritical and inhumane to punish drug abusers when they require medical treatment. Legalizing drugs takes the criminal element out of the mix. Drug abusers are ill and belong in treatment programs not in jail. Those who continue to support keeping drugs illegal leave us who disagree only to conclude you agree with punishing the sick in our society. So be it.

[Praxius]

Quote by: nm420 Well, in a sense, you do. It's just that place is a state of mind instead of a physical location. And coke will get you to your destination a lot faster than an automobile will...

Really? Cocaine from my experience with my so-called friends, is that it doesn't make you go on a trip. It's a sensation..... a very expensive sensation that lasts for a short time.

I think you might be mistaking LSD, Shrooms, Peyote, and Opium and their effects with another type of drug.

[Osborn F Enready]

So Pikatore, what type of diet do you have?

Are you a user?

Caffeine
Sugar
Guarana Extracts
Chocolate

Do you take things for aches and pains, headaches, cramps, etc?

Aspirin
Tylenol 3
Acetominiphine
Salicin


What makes these drugs different than drugs that are currently illegal?

Do they all not affect brain chemistry in some way?

[pikatore]

Quote by: brien My position is one of logic and sensibility, not a knee JERK reaction from someone who pretends to be the guru of Chemistry and Medicine. Spare us the psuedo intellectual lectures on the dangers of drugs and consider your own pot smoking before you go off lecturing us on the dangers of drugs. Perhaps you should refrain from smoking marajuana for a while and reconsider you hypocritical position on this matter. We are all aware of the consequences of ingesting illegal drugs.

lol, you're a bit touchy, arent you?

Firstly, I don't smoke pot.

Secondly, I was making a point that drugs such as heroine and cocaine are VERY dangerous, and should be kept illegal.

You overlooked my agreement that chronic drug users be treated, but you ignore my other point that people should be expected to be responsible and abide by the law that ban such nasty drugs for thier own good, and society's own good. Not every cocaine addict was weened on at 12 years of age.

Quote by: brien Those who continue to support keeping drugs illegal leave us who disagree only to conclude you agree with punishing the sick in our society. So be it.

That, I'm afraid to say, shows the flawed logic underlying your whole argument. What the HELL kind of assumptions are you making to come to a conclusion like that?

So much for logic and sensibility.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Pikatore Secondly, I was making a point that drugs such as heroine and cocaine are VERY dangerous, and should be kept illegal.

Is there any evidence to show that these drugs have an overwhelmingly harmful effect when they are legal and available?

[pikatore]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Is there any evidence to show that these drugs have an overwhelmingly harmful effect when they are legal and available?

Firstly, define 'overwhelming'.

Secondly, making them legal and available will do nothing to change the actual effect that they will have. They do all sorts of damage from the first injection/snort, even in very small doses.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: pikatore Firstly, define 'overwhelming'. Secondly, making them legal and available will do nothing to change the actual effect that they will have. They do all sorts of damage from the first injection/snort, even in very small doses.

Well, if it ruins many many more live when legal than when not legal, that would be a major arguing point.

[GHook93]

Quote by: pikatore Alcohol and Marijuana: A Point-By-Point Comparison Here's a nice little comparision of alcohol to marijuana. The lesser of two evils, maybe?

This has never been proven and actually the weight of evidence is against this.
The government used a campaign in the 80s and 90s that stated one joint had enough tar (the carcinogen in tobacco) as 2 packs of smokes, which turned out to be a lie. Pot doesn't contain Tar.

What are the health risks? Various forms of cancer Mouth cancer Throat cancer Lung cancer

From personal experience I can tell you it is not even close to be physically addicted. When pot lost its fun to me, it was easy to quit.

Is it addictive? Psychologically, possibly physically As with alcohol and many other drugs, not everyone who uses marijuana becomes addicted, but some users do develop signs of dependence on the drug. They may experience such withdrawal symptoms as loss of appetite, sleep problems, weight loss, and shaky hands. In 1995, 165,000 people entered drug treatment programs to kick their

There is no comparison alcohol is a much much more destructive substance.

[another day]

Quote by: Praxius Really? Cocaine from my experience with my so-called friends, is that it doesn't make you go on a trip. It's a sensation..... a very expensive sensation that lasts for a short time. I think you might be mistaking LSD, Shrooms, Peyote, and Opium and their effects with another type of drug.

No...It doesn't have to be a trip to be an escape. He's saying its an escape to a state of mind, and this is exactly how cocaine and all drugs work. You don't have to be disconnected from reality, it's just a mindstate and feeling that people escape to. It's not just a sensation. Like all drugs it drastically changed the way your mind thinks when you are high.

[brien]

Quote by: pikatore lol, you're a bit touchy, arent you? Firstly, I don't smoke pot. Secondly, I was making a point that drugs such as heroine and cocaine are VERY dangerous, and should be kept illegal. You overlooked my agreement that chronic drug users be treated, but you ignore my other point that people should be expected to be responsible and abide by the law that ban such nasty drugs for thier own good, and society's own good. Not every cocaine addict was weened on at 12 years of age. That, I'm afraid to say, shows the flawed logic underlying your whole argument. What the HELL kind of assumptions are you making to come to a conclusion like that? So much for logic and sensibility.

you're a bit touchy, arent you?

I do get "touchy" when another member insults me.

You wrote as if I was a dunce:

You obviously aren't educated in chemistry

Quite the opposite sir. Your assumption leads me to think about the first three letters of the word assumption.

Secondly, I was making a point that drugs such as heroine and cocaine are VERY dangerous, and should be kept illegal.

So everything that is very dangerous should be illegal? Why must you think that you have to protect people from themselves? What makes you think like that anyway?

You overlooked my agreement that chronic drug users be treated

Because I don't comment on an agreement, it doesn't mean I have overlooked it.

ignore my other point that people should be expected to be responsible and abide by the law that ban such nasty drugs for thier own good, and society's own good. Not every cocaine addict was weened on at 12 years of age.

I have not ignored this in the least. You just don't get my arguments. People must be held responsible for their own actions, but also too, when they don't affect anyone else but themselves? What is your problem with someone using cocaine on a recreational basis? They aren't hurting you or me, are they? Hold them responsible for their actions if they hurt themselves, but don't punish them. Treat them when the ill effects of cocaine hurt them. Hold them responsible for hurting themselves. Hold them responsible for hurting another if that is the effect of their using cocaine. However, the casual drug users don't affect anyone but themsleves, particularly if they can legally obtain their recreational drug. It is only when a user becomes an abuser do they then begin to affect others. This is when treatment is in order, not punishment.

I think you make the mistake in thinking you can protect people from themselves. Nothing is further from the truth. If this were true, then the illegal drug laws would have solved the drug abuse problem in America decades ago. But it didn't, and it won't, because the drug laws are a collossal failure in the US. They have never been effective, and never will be, the way the are designed to treat offenders with punishment rather than treatment.

And you wrote:

So much for logic and sensibility

I say, do you not pay attention to what you write, or doesn't it apply to yourself?

[aarinc]

well actually the " word stupid " mains a perminant change in our brain
but what marijuana actually does is a short change " temporarly " makes your stupid.
As it is a sedative it slows down our mind a bit
but if u smoke a lot it won't make u stupid . it'll just make u stupid as long as you are under the effect .
What Do U think people ?

[brien]

Quote by: brien Those who continue to support keeping drugs illegal leave us who disagree only to conclude you agree with punishing the sick in our society. So be it.

pikatore wrote:

That, I'm afraid to say, shows the flawed logic underlying your whole argument. What the HELL kind of assumptions are you making to come to a conclusion like that?

It is flawed logic to advocate treatment for an illness(drug abuse) rather than punishment? Keeping illegal drugs illegal perpetuates the punishment cycle of drug abuse and also perpetuates the criminal activity associated with illegal drugs. There are no treatment programs in prisons for drug abuse. In fact, drug abusers can get along quite well with their habit in corrupt prisons.

If keeping illegal drugs illegal is working, then why do we continue to have the epidemic of drug abuse in the US? Those of us who understand the problem of drug abuse, perhaps understand better that the solution is in treatment, not punishment. Those who use analgesics on a recreational basis are forced to use an underground of organized crime to obtain their drug of choice. If it were legal, the criminals would have no customers and they would have to turn to another lifestyle to support themselves while the occasional user could obtain their drug without perpetuating crime. How is not a bad thing to not perpetuate crime? Keeping drugs illegal perpetuates criminal activity since it doesn't solve the problem of drug abuse.

[brien]

Quote by: aarinc well actually the " word stupid " mains a perminant change in our brain but what marijuana actually does is a short change " temporarly " makes your stupid. As it is a sedative it slows down our mind a bit but if u smoke a lot it won't make u stupid . it'll just make u stupid as long as you are under the effect . What Do U think people ?

I think it was Forest Gump who said: "Stupid is as stupid does"

Welcome to the forum, aarinc :)

[pikatore]

Quote by: brien If keeping illegal drugs illegal is working, then why do we continue to have the epidemic of drug abuse in the US? Those of us who understand the problem of drug abuse, perhaps understand better that the solution is in treatment, not punishment. Those who use analgesics on a recreational basis are forced to use an underground of organized crime to obtain their drug of choice. If it were legal, the criminals would have no customers and they would have to turn to another lifestyle to support themselves while the occasional user could obtain their drug without perpetuating crime. How is not a bad thing to not perpetuate crime? Keeping drugs illegal perpetuates criminal activity since it doesn't solve the problem of drug abuse.

Give me example of a place in the world where drugs like herione and cocaine are legal. Oh wait! There aren't any! You have no proof to support your claim that we are better off legalising drugs. Organised crime is a spinoff from banning narcotics, but you think that keeping that stuff underground is worse than bringing it out into the open? I want more than speculation.

And keep in mind this whole argument doesnt just apply to the US. I'm sick of people using the American constitution as a point of argument. America is not the only country in the world with it's own set of rules.

[brien]

I want more than speculation

So Prohibition of Alcohol was / is speculation? The comparison is valid between alcohol and drugs. It gives all of the proof I require on this matter. Prohibition proved that preventing people from consuming something they want, they like, is popular and whose benefits outweigh the risks involved, only creates more problems that it actually solves. The results of the idiotic 28th amendment was proof enough for me.

[Osborn F Enready]

Pikatore, are you ignoring me, or just busy?

[pikatore]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready What makes these drugs different than drugs that are currently illegal? Do they all not affect brain chemistry in some way?

Some do affect the brain's chemistry, but only do relatively minor things like excite the adenosine receptors to make us feel more awake (caffeine). But when you look at herione and cocaine, thier physical effects on the body make caffeine and chocolate look like a day in the park.

Heroine is really another way of taking morphine, because that is what it is broken down into once in the body. Morphine is an opiate, and is produced in extremely minute quantities in the body to help with numbing after severe trauma such as a massive gash (that's why you don't feel the pain even if it looks horrible).

When in larger quantities, it causes a euphoric and sedative effect (which is why it is used for recreation), but has many nasty side effects, such as hypoventilation (extremely slow breathing, which starves the body of oxygen and further enhances the 'high'), and causes accumulations of very toxic chemicals that can lead to organ failure, and even brain damage. You don't need too much of it to overdose. It is extremely addictive, and withdrawal symptoms can be quite violent.

That's heroine, and IT SHOULD BE BANNED. As you can see, it isn't exactly a cup of coffee or a mars bar. That's why drugs are CLASSED.

Cocaine is a much more complicated drug, though in very small doses it has essentially the same effect as a massive hit of nicotine. In larger doses it can all kinds of things like induce hallucinations, loss of hunger (which is why cocaine users get the 'munchies' after a cocaine hit), hyperactivity, and overrides the body's natural functions and places it in a hyper state. It is extremely addictive as well, and in an overdose can cause a whole range of problems, the most common being cardiac failure (heart attack).

Cocaine is nasty, and should be banned. Pure and simple.

It's not exactly guarana or chocolate, and makes drugs like cannabis and acid look incredibly mild. That's why drugs like these should be kept WELL away from the public, PERIOD.

It's not so much thier mind-altering effects that concerns me, but the physiological damage they do to the user, and that combined with thier addictive nature.

[Praxius]

Quote by: pikatore Give me example of a place in the world where drugs like herione and cocaine are legal. Oh wait! There aren't any! You have no proof to support your claim that we are better off legalising drugs.

Besides Prohibition era and Amsterdam's legalization of certain drugs and prostitution, the only other example to prove if this would work or not, is to actually try and make it legal and see what happens.

You can't always fear the unknown.