Moon Landing

[Rocky]

"What Happened on the Moon" is back online. It's the best moon-hoax video I've ever seen.

Part 1
058 - 3223X9053R - NASA - What Happened on the Moon - 1 of 2

Part 2
058 - 3223X9053R - NASA - What Happened on the Moon - 2 of 2

[Rogers58]

Nice post coooll

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rocky "What Happened on the Moon" is back online. It's the best moon-hoax video I've ever seen. Part 1 058 - 3223X9053R - NASA - What Happened on the Moon - 1 of 2 Part 2 058 - 3223X9053R - NASA - What Happened on the Moon - 2 of 2

If by "best" you mean most ridiculous and unintentionally funny, I'd agree.

[Rocky]

Here's the latest thing I've come across.

Start watching this clip at the 50 second mark.

YouTube - Apollo 11: The TV Transmission Conspiracy Theorists Hate!

Collins' jacket moves just the way things move in gravity even though they are supposed to be in zero-gravity.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] As you all know, there are several conspiracy theories surrounding the moon landing. I never took them seriously until now. I thought about what it would realistically take in order to land on the moon, and it got me thinking that perhaps the technology available in 1969 wasnt capable of succesfully landing humans on the moon. For one thing, how would they take off from the moon? I know that the moon isnt as large as the Earth, so it would take less force to escape its gravity, but the implications of it are conflicting. In order to take off from the Earth we need these huge towers to help the spaceship along, but landing on the moon and then succesfully taking of in the FIRST attempt seems impossible to me. I mean think about it. We barely even got into space before we supposedly landed on the moon. And why is it that we havent gone back ever since then? Im sure if it was that easy we would have gone back many times with our new and improved technology.

The first one in bold has at least two answers: I'm sure more. A. gravity (as in almost none) B. No atmosphere; hence little resistance... all of which contributed to killing our last set of astronauts who died. If that landing had happened on the moon they would have survived: until they ran out of air.

Second "bold:" because unlike JFK every Pres. after was intent to use what he started for political gain and say (without actually saying) "screw all the benefits." I'm not a JFK worshiper. He certainly did things for political gain, and this was driven by pure politics to begin with: competition with the USSR. But, in this case, the dream lived on until we reached our goal. In an Arthur C. Clarke book. Clarke has the government create an agency that funds impossible projects. What they find is that when we reach beyond who we are and what we think is possible... wonderful advances happen. Unfortunately such forward thinking is absent in most of today's crop of pols except during pure posturing. Then we find out it was all BS designed just to get them in power.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: plasma snake The moon lower gravity and lack of atmosphere would make a take off easier, but what I am wondering is that this was the first attempt, and they got it right. I mean, we are talking about landing on a big rock thats in motion and whos surface is littered with craters. Im not an engineer, I know, but it just seems to me like this journey would take a lot more research than what was available in 1969.

It's basic physics. I could do it with the right data (not really).

[Anmon]

Has anyone seen Capricorn One? Its a nice old sci fi movie from the seventy's, that deals with a faked Mars landing because they couldn't afford to really pay for men to go to Mars and back, so they filmed it all in a studio instead.
Only problem was the rocket after doing a few months in space close to earth somewhere, burned up on re entry, so naturally the men had to be disposed of.
Of course the men get wind of whats happened so plan their escape from the studio set so to blow the story to the worlds press for their own survival.
Great movie that starred OJ Simpson as one of the astronauts.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rocky Here's the latest thing I've come across. Start watching this clip at the 50 second mark. YouTube - Apollo 11: The TV Transmission Conspiracy Theorists Hate! Collins' jacket moves just the way things move in gravity even though they are supposed to be in zero-gravity.

Oh really? And from what institute of higher learning is your degree in physics that you are qualified to make that assessment?

[Rocky]

Look at the way the corners of the jacket the woman astronaut in this clip is wearing move

YouTube - Discovery Crew Enters International Space Station
(first 10 seconds and last 30 seconds)

It's pretty different from the way the corner of the jacket Collins is wearing moves.

YouTube - Apollo 11: The TV Transmission Conspiracy Theorists Hate!
(50 second mark)

Let's hear some analyses from the pro-Apollo people on this.

[Walrus]

In the Apollo film the movement of the jacket is not behaving as it would in Earth gravity. Why the jacket is behaving differently in the two weightless environments ... firstly the astronaut in the Apollo clip is moving vigorously and secondly the jacket may be made of a material that has a greater mass and whilst it is weightless it would still retain the inertia of that mass.

[Rocky]

In the Apollo film the movement of the jacket is not behaving as it would in Earth gravity.

The corner of collins' jacket is hanging and swinging like a pendulum. The only thing that could possibly explain it woud be that the craft was either accelerating or slowing down but according to the video they were halfway to the moon.

Collins' jacket isn't stiff so the stiffness isn't what is keeping it down.

I think you are stretching your imagination to see what you want to see.

[Winter wind]

Any definitive proof and not just weird circumstantial proof like that?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rocky The corner of collins' jacket is hanging and swinging like a pendulum. The only thing that could possibly explain it woud be that the craft was either accelerating or slowing down but according to the video they were halfway to the moon.

And again, I ask, from what institute of higher learning is your degree in physics that makes you qualified as an expert on the movement of physical bodies relative to gravity?

[Walrus]

Quote by: Rocky The corner of collins' jacket is hanging and swinging like a pendulum. The only thing that could possibly explain it woud be that the craft was either accelerating or slowing down but according to the video they were halfway to the moon. Collins' jacket isn't stiff so the stiffness isn't what is keeping it down. I think you are stretching your imagination to see what you want to see.

I can see what you are getting at, the corner of the jacket is moving from side to side but that is what a human body does when in perambulatory motion. What is doesn’t appear to be doing is going up or down and lack of movement in either of those directions would be in keeping with a weightless environment. Now look at the rest of the jacket, the cuffs, the way the folds are moving and the fabric billowing, it isn’t behaving as it should in normal gravity. However, to be objective this effect cold possibly be simulated if it was filmed in slow motion, so as evidence it is probably inconclusive.

What isn’t inconclusive is the fact that all the Apollo missions were tracked from earth, all the way to the moon and back, not only from the U.S. but from all over the world including tracking stations in the USSR. If there had been the slightest hint of fakery, it would have been all over the front pages of Pravda.

Finally, as to my observational skills, (throws modesty to the winds) they are excellent. I’m an artist and an illustrator, observing and using critical approach to that observation is primary to my craft.

[Gods_Mercenary]

That's always been my argument, unless you're sugesting that the entire space race was a hoax, The soviets would have taken "Moon Landing a Fake", put it on a giant poster, put it in a rocket, and flew it up to the moon so the entire human race for al time could laugh at the silly americans.

[Rocky]

I can see what you are getting at, the corner of the jacket is moving from side to side but that is what a human body does when in perambulatory motion.

It's behavior is very different from the corners of the jacket worn by the woman astronaut in the other clip.

YouTube - Discovery Crew Enters International Space Station

What isn’t inconclusive is the fact that all the Apollo missions were tracked from earth, all the way to the moon and back, not only from the U.S. but from all over the world including tracking stations in the USSR. If there had been the slightest hint of fakery, it would have been all over the front pages of Pravda.

Just because we read they were tracked doesn't mean they really were.

Here's some stuff about the US press and the Apollo data.
ApolloHoax.net - All of the Apollo data are bogus

ApolloHoax.net - All the Apollo Data are Bogus

ApolloHoax.net - The Lying American Press

You're just assuming what we were reading about the cold war reflected reality. You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-3-1.html
http://www.zmag.org/Chomsky/dd/dd-c01-s01.html

Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing
(excerpt)
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Well, why did they keep faking the Apollo flights, I still don't understand. Did the Soviet Union know it was faked? Why did they keep shut up if they knew it was faked? 'Cause a lot of people would think they kept the moon race going to prove the U.S. was better than the Soviet Union. If the Soviet Union knew, why did they let the U.S. get away with this?
Well, I'll tell you - at the highest levels there is a coalition between governments. In other words, the Soviets said, if you won't tell on us - and they faked most of their space exploration flights - we won't tell on you. It's as simple as that. See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S. that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's nothing conclusive about anything we simply read as the government lies about so many things.

And again, I ask, from what institute of higher learning is your degree in physics that makes you qualified as an expert on the movement of physical bodies relative to gravity?

I have no special background but the difference between the behavior of the corners of the two jackets in these two clips are so obvious that even a layman can see it. I have asked the opinion of someone I know with a degree in physics and he says the Apollo footage was taken in gravity.

In a case like this, any viewers with any doubts should show both clips to a physics professor at their local university as what is said on forums can't be confirmed.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rocky Look at the way the corners of the jacket the woman astronaut in this clip is wearing move YouTube - Discovery Crew Enters International Space Station (first 10 seconds and last 30 seconds) It's pretty different from the way the corner of the jacket Collins is wearing moves. YouTube - Apollo 11: The TV Transmission Conspiracy Theorists Hate! (50 second mark) Let's hear some analyses from the pro-Apollo people on this.

Analysis: You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Not only do they look roughly similar - the jacket waving in the breeze - neither is evidence of ANYTHING.

You want me to believe that the moon landings were faked because two jackets made of different materials, one worn by a small woman, one worn by a large man, nearly 50 years apart, one worn in a tiny capsule, one worn in an expansive space station, with vastly different air currents, move slightly differently?

Ridiculous. Absolutely f*cking ridiculous. Is that a good enough analysis for you?

[Walrus]

Quote by: Rocky Just because we read they were tracked doesn't mean they really were.

As arguments go, that is probably one of the worst.

I remember the Apollo 11 mission (I’m that old). The telescope at Jodrell Bank here in the UK tracked that mission every step of the way and we received reports on its progress throughout its journey. I can’t speak for the Russians though, it is possible that they had more interesting things to do than watch mankind's first journey to the moon.

Jodrell Bank stories - MikePeel.net

[Rocky]

The telescope at Jodrell Bank here in the UK tracked that mission every step of the way and we received reports on its progress throughout its journey.

Why are you so sure what you read reflected reality? Also, there's the plausible scenario that an unmanned craft actually went and landed to fool the people tracking (If there really were people tracking).

If the video evidence shows fakery, obviously they either lied, or fooled the trackers.

Analysis: You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Not only do they look roughly similar - the jacket waving in the breeze - neither is evidence of ANYTHING. You want me to believe that the moon landings were faked because two jackets made of different materials, one worn by a small woman, one worn by a large man, nearly 50 years apart, one worn in a tiny capsule, one worn in an expansive space station, with vastly different air currents, move slightly differently? Ridiculous. Absolutely f*cking ridiculous. Is that a good enough analysis for you?

This is a pretty lame analysis. The corner of Collins' jacket stays down and moves back and forth as it would in gravity even though there are forces acting on it that would make it go up in zero-gravity. The corners of the space station astronaut's jacket go up when a force acts on them. You seem to be choosing not to see the obvious.

[Walrus]

Why are you so sure what you read reflected reality?

The answer to that is “I’m not”, but then I’m not sure that anything we perceive necessarily reflects reality.

Also, there's the plausible scenario that an unmanned craft actually went and landed to fool the people tracking

They would have to have taped the entire mission and sent the astronaut's side of the conversations to be played back, this would have to allow for the time differential in communication as the craft drew further from the earth, also video was relatively new and storage would have been on large reels using bulky equipment to play them, this would have to fly to the moon land and take of again and whilst they had the technology to send men to the moon, I think to send that sort of unmanned craft would have been very difficult if not impossible with 1969 technology. The only other method would have been to bounce signals of the spacecraft, they would still have had problems with the time delay in the communications and the fact that the uplink would have been detected.

(If there really were people tracking).

I think we can assume that there were, it was a fairly important event after all

Conspiracies do occur but for the moon lading conspiracy to be viable it would have had to be international and to have included participation of the world’s scientific community.