Moon Landing

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Chris you're splitting hairs. I said "The moon doesn't spin on an axis like the earth" what part of that is wrong? if you think of the earth as the sun and the moon as the earth, the moon does not spin on an axis like the earth does.

If the moon didn't spin on it's axis, we'd see all sides of it. It has to spin to keep the same face towards us.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Zeebadee If the moon didn't spin on it's axis, we'd see all sides of it. It has to spin to keep the same face towards us.

I am going to sue Moon, for biased behaviour :-) It favours Martians, clearly :-)

[Chris]

Quote by: Zeebadee If the moon didn't spin on it's axis, we'd see all sides of it. It has to spin to keep the same face towards us.

I dont think I am making myself clear. Picture yourself on the moon, and imagine the earth is the sun. Or better yet imagine yourself hovering above the north pole of the moon looking down at the moon. And you follow it as it travels around the earth in one cycle. Just as the earth would revolve around the sun in one year. The moon will not spin on an axis. It will only revolve around the earth. The moon does do a complete 360 relative to the sun but not relative to its revolution around the earth like the earth does. JUST as I said to begin with. Which of course was not wrong.

[gallo]

Quote by: Chris I dont think I am making myself clear.

No. The problem is that you are making yourself quite clear. You just don't know what you are talking about.

Picture yourself on the moon, and imagine the earth is the sun.

For what purpose? What should I imagine the sun is in this case?

Or better yet imagine yourself hovering above the north pole of the moon looking down at the moon.

OK. I can do that.

And you follow it as it travels around the earth in one cycle.

OK. I have just imagined that I have seen the moon turn on its axis one time. Did you have a point?

Just as the earth would revolve around the sun in one year.

What does that mean? Are you not aware that that wasn't a sentence?

The moon will not spin on an axis.

But it does spin on its axis. In fact, I imagined it in two ways (since your statement of the hypothetical was so vague as to allow numerous cases). First, I imagined myself hovering above the moon facing the sun. I observed the moon to rotate on its axis below me. Next I imagined myself in a fixed position in relation to the surface of the moon. I then observed that the sun was in orbit around the moon, while the earth was fixed and immovable, although rotating.

It will only revolve around the earth.

Are you sure? Can you say for a fact that it doesn't leap off and orbit Mars or Jupiter from time to time?

The moon does do a complete 360 relative to the sun but not relative to its revolution around the earth like the earth does.

So you are saying that the moon does not do a 360 degree rotation relative to the earth just as the earth does not do a 360 degree rotation relative to the earth. Did that make sense to you when you typed it?

JUST as I said to begin with. Which of course was not wrong.

Actually, so wrong that it is laughable.

We're all wrong from time to time, but to attempt to defend a position of ignorance after explanation of the error is beyond belief.

[Chris]

just forget it. I obviously cant get through to you. Any anyway we are supposed to be talking about whether or not the moon landing was real not the physics of the moon.

[Zeebadee]

I think the fact that the moon's axis also moves in an orbit around the earth doesn't negate the idea that the moon rotates on it once for every revolution around the earth.

[gallo]

Quote by: Zeebadee I think the fact that the moon's axis also moves in an orbit around the earth doesn't negate the idea that the moon rotates on it once for every revolution around the earth.

Exactly. The phenomena is known as tidal locking. Look it up on Wikipedia and you will find a long list of other orbiting bodies that are in tidal lock to another. I guess none of those are turning on their axis either.

[nose]

I think Chris means that a non-inertial rotating frame can be constructed in which the moon is stationary and not rotating. Perfectly viable.

Just like linear motion, if we are going to be talking about angular motion we need to be specific about the angular motion of the frame - no frame can be assumed stationary.

[Chris]

Thanks nose and welcome to the boards.

And we do need to get back to the "the moon landing was faked" discussion.

[gallo]

Quote by: nose I think Chris means that a non-inertial rotating frame can be constructed in which the moon is stationary and not rotating. Perfectly viable.

Sure. But in that case, the moon is fixed while the entire universe orbits the moon, complete with various retrograde motions that cannot be explained by the frame of reference.

Just like linear motion, if we are going to be talking about angular motion we need to be specific about the angular motion of the frame - no frame can be assumed stationary.

But there is no "frame" that can, in reality, state that the moon does not rotate on its axis. In reality, every body in the universe rotates on some axis since there is no point that can be established as a fixed, unmoving center. Everything rotates in relation to something else, The moon rotates on its axis once for ever orbit of the earth. To claim otherwise would be embarrassing.

Quote by: Chris And we do need to get back to the "the moon landing was faked" discussion.

We have to wonder why you led the discussion astray.

OK. The landing wasn't faked.

[Chris]

Led the discussion away...

Well its to address petty hair splitting. Of course I realize that all bodies move, I realize that even the sun moves and our solar system moves in the cygnus arm of the galaxy, which also moves. I GET IT.

Relative to earth, as the earth is relative to our sun, the moon does not spin on its axis.

enough said.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Chris Led the discussion away... Well its to address petty hair splitting. Of course I realize that all bodies move, I realize that even the sun moves and our solar system moves in the cygnus arm of the galaxy, which also moves. I GET IT. Relative to earth, as the earth is relative to our sun, the moon does not spin on its axis. enough said.

"Because the Moon is also orbiting around the Earth. If the Moon didn't rotate about its axis, here's what would happen. One side would be facing us right now; two weeks later, when the Moon has gone halfway in its orbit around the Earth, the opposite side of the Moon would be facing us. Here's a picture (the Earth and the Moon should really be spheres, of course, not squares):

E A R T H
E A R T H moon
E A R T H moon
E A R T H moon
E A R T H

After the Moon has gone halfway in its orbit around the Earth, if the Moon didn't spin on its axis, the picture would look like this:

........ E A R T H
moon E A R T H
moon E A R T H
moon E A R T H
........ E A R T H

Notice that we on the Earth would now see the opposite side of the Moon (the Earth sees the "m" of "moon" in the first picture, but it sees the "n" of the word "moon" in the second picture).

What really happens is that the Moon is rotating on its axis; it spins once a month, exactly the same length of time as it takes to orbit the Earth. So, after half an orbit around the Earth, the Moon has also spun one-half of a revolution about its axis. The correct second picture looks like this:

........ E A R T H
noom E A R T H
noom E A R T H
noom E A R T H
........ E A R T H

Now the Moon has rotated 180 degrees, so the Earth still sees the "m" of "moon".

Here's another picture. After one-quarter of an orbit (about one week after the original picture), the Moon has rotated 90 degrees on its axis, and it looks something like this:

.. n. n .n
.. o .o .o
.. o .o .o
.. m m m
E A R T H
E A R T H
E A R T H
E A R T H
E A R T H

Once again, the "m" side of "moon" is facing the Earth, but it took an appropriate amount of rotation of the Moon about its axis to keep the "m" side facing the Earth.

So the Moon rotates about its own axis in the same length of time that it takes to orbit the Earth. That's what keeps the same side of the Moon always facing the Earth."

Why We See Only One Side of the Moon

[Scott]

Here's an audio interview with Bill Kaysing that I came across.
Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing

Here's the written text of it.
Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing

He does make a few mistakes but I think he got most of it right.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Scott Here's an audio interview with Bill Kaysing that I came across. Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing Here's the written text of it. Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing He does make a few mistakes but I think he got most of it right.

I can say that I agree with the bolded part.

Quote by: Bill Kaysing See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S. that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.

BTW, what is the radiation environment on the Moon's surface?

I like this part, too.

Quote by: Bill Kaysing NASA and the CIA and the whole U.S. government is a rotten and corrupt organization, designed just to get all the tax money they can out of people, to manipulate their minds, to keep them amused with sporting events and silly TV sitcoms. We, unfortunately, in the U.S. are pretty well brainwashed, believing whatever the government says. And they have control, as you well know, of the media.

[Chris]

Quote by: Zeebadee "Because the Moon is also orbiting around the Earth. If the Moon didn't rotate about its axis, here's what would happen. One side would be facing us right now; two weeks later, when the Moon has gone halfway in its orbit around the Earth, the opposite side of the Moon would be facing us. Here's a picture (the Earth and the Moon should really be spheres, of course, not squares): E A R T H E A R T H moon E A R T H moon E A R T H moon E A R T H After the Moon has gone halfway in its orbit around the Earth, if the Moon didn't spin on its axis, the picture would look like this: ........ E A R T H moon E A R T H moon E A R T H moon E A R T H ........ E A R T H Notice that we on the Earth would now see the opposite side of the Moon (the Earth sees the "m" of "moon" in the first picture, but it sees the "n" of the word "moon" in the second picture). What really happens is that the Moon is rotating on its axis; it spins once a month, exactly the same length of time as it takes to orbit the Earth. So, after half an orbit around the Earth, the Moon has also spun one-half of a revolution about its axis. The correct second picture looks like this: ........ E A R T H noom E A R T H noom E A R T H noom E A R T H ........ E A R T H Now the Moon has rotated 180 degrees, so the Earth still sees the "m" of "moon". Here's another picture. After one-quarter of an orbit (about one week after the original picture), the Moon has rotated 90 degrees on its axis, and it looks something like this: .. n. n .n .. o .o .o .. o .o .o .. m m m E A R T H E A R T H E A R T H E A R T H E A R T H Once again, the "m" side of "moon" is facing the Earth, but it took an appropriate amount of rotation of the Moon about its axis to keep the "m" side facing the Earth. So the Moon rotates about its own axis in the same length of time that it takes to orbit the Earth. That's what keeps the same side of the Moon always facing the Earth." Why We See Only One Side of the Moon

If you would have read what I posted about this, you would have saved yourself the time it ttok you to type this post out.

If the moon didnt spin on its axis we would see the far side of the moon. NOTHING in the known universe acts like that and you mistaking me for believing that is very poor judgment. Think of the 8 ball being the earth and the 1 ball being the moon. Now hold the 1 ball in your hand and make a circle around the 8 ball not spinning it but moving it around the 8 ball. NO ONE has suggested this is what happens with the moon, and no one here believes thats what happens. I REALIZE that the 1 ball rotates around the 8 ball, with the number 1 always facing earth. THATS WHAT I SAID FROM THE BEGINNING! You do NOT see the number 1 spinning around and around and around at the same time it goes around the 8 ball , in a similar fashion that earth spins on its own axis around the sun. The moon does not spin on its own axis like the earth. (like I have said from the very beginning of this stupid argument.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Chris You do NOT see the number 1 spinning around and around and around at the same time it goes around the 8 ball , in a similar fashion that earth spins on its own axis around the sun. The moon does not spin on its own axis like the earth. (like I have said from the very beginning of this stupid argument.

Yes, the moon spins around once for every orbit it makes of the earth. It spins on it's axis once, as it's axis moves around the earth.

[Yarn]

Awfully coincidental ain't it?

Kinda like the North star.

[PatrickHenry]

Libration is the effect of the constant angular momentum of the moon's monthly rotation on its axis combined with the variable orbital velocity in its elliptical orbit.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: gallo In reality, every body in the universe rotates on some axis since there is no point that can be established as a fixed, unmoving center. Everything rotates in relation to something else

That is correct.

That is the core of the Universe we live-in.
Otherwise, the Universe is gone, including ourselves.

[5010]

I can understand one who says, relative to me, the moon is not spinning. Actually it is swinging.

Consider: If one takes a ball attached to a rope and moves it around, it is called "swinging the ball", not "spinning. the ball".

From the moon's perspective, the earth is spinning and not swinging (technically it swings back and forth a little bit). The sun is both spinning and swinging.

From the sun's perspective, the moon and earth are spinning as well as swinging.

And I agree that has nothing to do with whether or not man has walked on the moon.