Kids With High IQs Grow Up to Be Vegetarians

[pikatore]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Meat eaters don't want that. They vote with their dollars.

Well I do. If I'm part of a freakish minority, then so be it. This debate is about ethics.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Vegetarians as a percentage of their group are much less likely to die from obesity related disease. By being a vegetarian one is more likely to eat healthier foods. Vegetarians vote with their wallets, too, when they purchase healthy foods, such as veggies, fruits, nuts, etc... We are just outnumbered by those of you meateaters who vote with your wallets and have been transforming our landscape into fast food meat -- which shows us, that as a group, or a large percentage of your group, wants.

I honestly don't care about what you said there. If your new argument at the table is throwing blankets of blame, then stop. A healthy diet is one that is balanced, and that includes the consumption of meat.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin And how will you do that? Create an association or group? I would bet there are already some, but have they been successful in gaining any kind of momentum? I don't think so because the fast food industry and the factory farms are still well entrenched, if not growing -- along with the ever increasing growth of obesity and diet related problems, almost on the verge of being labeled an epidemic.

So I see your focus leaving from the typical ethical/health argument that veges make, and then questioning the practicality of the world following a healthy omnivorus diet. Not a healthy sign in itself that you are making headway.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Agreed. Perhaps affluence leads to gluttony.

Blame the gluttons, not the meat.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Though, I would say try vegetarianism. Experiment with it. Or perhaps make certain days vegetarian. How about "Meatless Mondays" or a "Meat Fast Friday"?

Do you honestly think omnis eat meat all the time, day in, day out??? I do stir fry and rice or spaghetti most nights, and throw some beef or lamb in when I feel like it. Stop treating all the meat eaters like a bunch of extremist idiots.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin I think a lot of meat eaters are afraid that if they give up meat then they will be depriving themselves of delicious food. But that just isn't the case. After getting used to cooking vegetarian and experimenting with spices and other flavorings, you may find that a whole new world of delicious eating awaits you. All I can say is, keep an open mind.

Oh my god. Unlike you, I enjoy eating from a variety of food groups. If that's unhealthy, then I am, a vast majority of the world, and nutritionsts are, ignorant fools. I guess the eskimos are pretty stupid for managing to survive off a diet almost purely comprised of fish.

Keep an open mind? Coming from a vege, to omnis???

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin And for those of you who were once vegetarians but backslided back to eating meat, just try again.

ppfft

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: pikatore Well I do. If I'm part of a freakish minority, then so be it.

Sure, you can call yourself a freak.

This debate is about ethics.

You need to look at the thread title.

A healthy diet is one that is balanced, and that includes the consumption of meat.

A healthy diet can include meat, but it need not so. What part of the American Dietition Association's position paper on vegetarianism do you take issue with and call them flat out wrong on?

Blame the gluttons, not the meat.

Kinda like blame the junkie, not the crack, huh.

Do you honestly think omnis eat meat all the time, day in, day out???

No. Why do you suggest that I think so with your question?

Stop treating all the meat eaters like a bunch of extremist idiots.

The majority of obese people are meat eaters. The thing most extreme about them is probably their wasteline, and if that is any indicator as to what they can comprehend as a healthy diet, well then, you can decide for yourself about their intelligence.

Oh my god. Unlike you, I enjoy eating from a variety of food groups.

Only the meat is missing in mine. There are a vast variety of foods in a vegetarian diet.

If that's unhealthy, then I am, a vast majority of the world, and nutritionsts are, ignorant fools.

The ADA, the largest association of professional nutritionists in the world, in their position paper clearly states that not only is a vegetarian diet a healthy diet, but also offers benefits to health that one with meat does not.

I've posted the link to the paper in several places throughout Volconvo. Let me know if you have not found it already.

I guess the eskimos are pretty stupid for managing to survive off a diet almost purely comprised of fish.

lol. No, they are just choosing to keep freezing their butts off by choosing to stay in the far north. I think it is the smarter choice to live in a more temperate zone, and indeed, the civilizations that have come to power and brought much of the modern amenities and progress to the world, have not been Eskimos -- or haven`t you noticed?

Maybe that would be different had they gotten more vegetables and fruits into their diets.

Keep an open mind? Coming from a vege, to omnis??? ppfft

lol. Yea, right, indeed. ppfft.

[pikatore]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin lol. No, they are just choosing to keep freezing their butts off by choosing to stay in the far north. I think it is the smarter choice to live in a more temperate zone, and indeed, the civilizations that have come to power and brought much of the modern amenities and progress to the world, have not been Eskimos -- or haven`t you noticed?

And bang, I realise part of the reason why you have a pro-veggie stance. You adopt this elitest attitude, completly ignorant of the how and why we came to be omnivorous in the first place.

Not to mention that you seem to forget that organisms ADAPT to thier environment. We do so involuntarily. THATS WHY WE ARE OMNIVOROUS.

Last time I checked, economic and ethical stances didn't change one's biological makeup. If you want to go veg, and think it's the best path, you are going to have to regrow a caecum, seeing how our appendix is literally obselete. Then you can be a true veggie. When you are biologically adapted to reaping the full benefits of living of a specialised diet. Until then, I will take advantage of the variety of foods I have, with knowledge of what i need, and you can restrict your diet on an extremist's premise.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: pikatore And bang,...

"bang"? lol.

...I realise part of the reason why you have a pro-veggie stance. You adopt this elitest attitude, complete ignorant of the how and why we came to be omnivorous in the first place.

Hey, you were the one who wanted to use Eskimos held up as an example of survival. What have they really offered to the world in the way of advancing modern civilization? Well?

Not to mention that you seem to forget that organisms ADAPT to thier environment. We do so involuntarily. THATS WHY WE ARE OMNIVOROUS.

We are opportunistic. In the modern world we have the opportunity to live optimal healthy lives without meat and can voluntarily choose to do so. The ADA and the scientific background and training of their nutritionist members clearly state that, and to boot they state the vegetarian diet offers some health advantages over a diet with meat.

[pikatore]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Hey, you were the one who wanted to use Eskimos held up as an example of survival. What have they really offered to the world in the way of advancing modern civilization? Well?

We are limited as civilisations and as people by our biology. And our biological systems are best suited to what they've EVOLVED to suit. That seems to be the one key factor you are appearing to dismiss as unimportant.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin We are opportunistic. In the modern world we have the opportunity to live optimal healthy lives without meat and can voluntarily choose to do so. The ADA and the scientific background and training of their nutritionist members clearly state that, and to boot they state the vegetarian diet offers some health advantages over a diet with meat.

A BALANCED, VARIED diet is a healthy diet. And it looks like meat comes in right into the equation.

A vegetarian diet LACKS in certain nutrients that our body needs, and our cells waste energy by having to synthesise these nutrients through metabolic pathways that are only precautionary.

Taking supplements is all well and good, but maybe that's a bit of an indicator that a vegetarian diet doesn't provide us with everything we need.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: pikatore We are limited as civilisations and as people by our biology. And our biological systems are best suited to what they've EVOLVED to suit. That seems to be the one key factor you are appearing to dismiss as unimportant.

No. We are limited as civilizations and as people by our intelligence and what that creates. In this modern civilization we can easily create a diet for optimal health and are therefore not limited. That ais the one key factor you are appearing to dismiss as unimportant.

Our biology does not suffer in this modern world from a diet without meat. The majority of those eating meat in the most modern society on Earth, The U.S., are obese and suffer from obesity related diseases -- and that trend is growing to epidemic proportions. Their obesity is placing some real limits on their life-span and quality of life.

A BALANCED, VARIED diet is a healthy diet. And it looks like meat comes in right into the equation.

Yes, it can. I have never said it couldn't. But look at the trend of the health of the average citizen meat eater and their obesity. Vegetarians in general do not have the many health risks that are commonly associated with meat eaters. This is the reality of the present and trends.

A vegetarian diet LACKS in certain nutrients that our body needs, and our cells waste energy by having to synthesise these nutrients through metabolic pathways that are only precautionary.

A modern vegetarian diet is optimal for health and offers some health benefits over a meat eating diet. Have you seen the American Dietiticans Association's position paper on Vegetarianism? They are the largest association of nutritionists in the world with thousands of members with scientific studies, backgrounds, and thousands of hours of study and research between them. Their paper is footnoted with nearly a 100 references to studies conducted by the American Heart Association, The National Institute of Health, The American Cancer Society, etc... to name but a few, and whose research papers have been published in a number of well respected peer reviewed journals.

Perhaps you can find a paper as well and deeply footnoted and researched as theirs, by a reputed association of scientists and nutritionist specialists saying the opposite of what they assert or what you profess about meat eating versus vegetarianism. Well? Can you?

[pikatore]

Well actually, before I go any further, I feel the need to ask you why you think it is such a healthy diet, if you need to take supplements with it to achieve the total nutritional benefit your body demands. Supplements aren't picked off trees, last time I checked.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: pikatore Well actually, before I go any further, I feel the need to ask you why you think it is such a healthy diet, if you need to take supplements with it to achieve the total nutritional benefit your body demands. Supplements aren't picked off trees, last time I checked.

What? You mean no more pithy and dramatic "bang" to start out with? or telling us what the debate is about (again, read the OP -- it is not the ethical argument you keep trying to wedge it into [though, feel free to make a thread for that if you want to persue it])?

@ your quote above: You seem to be having trouble with comprehending what the qualifier modern entails -- and that is what is healthy -- a modern vegetarian diet. We do live in the present, you know. But, we have noticed your argument is stuck in the past.

Again, what part of the ADA position paper are you saying they do not know what they are talking about, and what of your qualifications trumps their combined knowledge, research, and education on the matter? Well?

[pikatore]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin What? You mean no more pithy and dramatic "bang" to start out with? or telling us what the debate is about (again, read the OP -- it is not the ethical argument you keep trying to wedge it into [though, feel free to make a thread for that if you want to persue it])?

It's broken down into the same old vege = good argument. The health argument clearly isn't valid, because you are recommending a diet which our biology CLEARLY wasn't designed for. No research paper can ever prove otherwise.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin @ your quote above: You seem to be having trouble with comprehending what the qualifier modern entails -- and that is what is healthy -- a modern vegetarian diet. We do live in the present, you know. But, we have noticed your argument is stuck in the past.

No, it's stuck in the present, and it's stuck in reality. And the reality is, we are omnivores.

Our bodies have barely changed since the dawn of civilisation, so there is no reason to force a resistricted diet on them.

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Again, what part of the ADA position paper are you saying they do not know what they are talking about, and what of your qualifications trumps their combined knowledge, research, and education on the matter? Well?

I'm sorry, I don't need to read the paper. I know enough about my body and yours to know that a vegetarian diet is competely unnessecary.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: pikatore The health argument clearly isn't valid, because you are recommending a diet which our biology CLEARLY wasn't designed for. No research paper can ever prove otherwise.

It surely is, and you are clearly going against experts in nutrition if you think a vegetarian diet is not a valid diet that we and our biology can thrive on in today's world. Your argument is not so much with me, but with a well respected group and yourself for not being able to grasp what they are telling us.

No, it's stuck in the present, and it's stuck in reality.

That is right! We are stuck in the present and moving forward every moment. We no longer need an ancient diet to thrive -- in fact, even Pythagorus and his group of geometrists were vegetarians thousands of years ago, and it did not affect their mental faculties. But, being in the present, we can choose a modern meatless diet and be just as healthy as omnivores and have additional health benefits with that choice. Of course you don't understand that, because you are taking the ostrich stick its head in the hole stance refusing to seek out the ADA paper.

I'm sorry, I don't need to read the paper.

lol. See? Ostrich with head in hole syndrome.

I know enough about my body and yours to know that a vegetarian diet is competely unnessecary.

Where have I ever said it was necessary? All I have ever said is that a modern vegetarian diet provides us with all the things our bodies need to be at an optimal level of performance, or just as well as any omnivore, plus, as the ADA reports, it offfers some additional benefits that a meat based diet does not.

You have utterly failed in providing any data support from a large group of experts with a respected reputation with their findings published in respected peer related journals to suggest the opposite. I doubt you could find that with the ostrich in hole syndrom your style of argument seems to be afflicted with.

You are well behind, and embarrassingly so. Get busy.

[Vivid]

Quote by: vicious-vegan Sure. Compare Prices on Veglife Vegan Cal-Mag Citrate + D - 180 Chewable Tablets Tablets You can take a look at some of the vegan vitamins here. I just had some soy milk with Omega 3, so I guess I'm good. Yes, I agree. =) Well its not very fatty and it has a lot of protien, something that you need to get buff- but without the fat and sugar (well it does have fat, of course, but its good fats. Like we all need some fat of course.) It's said to lower your your blood cholesterol and blood pressure levels as well, and that's always good.

Hmmm. Cool. I'm planning on trying some tofu recipes soon. I've been thinking a lot about switching to veggie. I'm just... sick of tolerating eating meat. I cant seem to get used to it. I feel almost like I'm finally giving in to the inner veggie. Its kind of a relief. Thanks for talking to me about this, I think it helped.

Quote by: vicious-vegan Oh yeah, my IQ is 136- last I checked. So I'm not crazy smart or anything but I am content. =)

Hahaha, actually, you ARE crazy smart. Thats right around the top 2% and the top 1% in intelligence.

Find 100 random people, and you'll be the smartest one, or the next smartest one.

Like seriously.

By the way, that score would qualify you for all the gifted public school programs in the US. You can join Mensa with it. It means that you are smart enough to do just about any career. Richard Feynman is a genius, and his IQ is "only" 124 - though IQ isn't a reliable indicator of genius, it is considered to be a factor, so with that score, you could possibly be a genius too. You're quite possibly autodidactic, too - not everyone is, but I saw a chart once that had "autodidact" written in that IQ range. You may have multiple talents - this is not common. Depending on how long ago that score was given to you it might mean - literally - that you learn 36% faster than most people. Its interesting how little most gifted people know about giftedness. Its not uncommon for them to do something totally amazing like read at 685 words per minute, and then be shocked and surprised to find out that the average is 200-300 words per minute, getting all bug-eyed to realize that they're reading two to three times as fast as normal. Gifted people tend to consider whatever they are able to do as normal, without realizing how different their abilities are.

Giftedness is a very pervasive difference. Gifted people tend to feel estranged. From what I gather, they have higher rates of psychological problems, often having more than one at a time - though, this is explained by a guy named Dabrowski that they are not disorders, but part of a learning process that allows them to become fully integrated personalities. It is also explained differently in the book "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults" - some things are normal for the gifted that are not normal for the average population, and although those traits can seem neurotic, many times, for gifted people, they aren't. I think that the seemingly higher rate of neurosis/eccentricity, brilliance and genius all relate directly to the heightened intensity of having OE's. There are lots of differences. And it seems like most gifted people don't have a thorough understanding of whats going on. A lot of them think theres something wrong with them when nothing is wrong, because they're just not normal.

Numbers aren't everything, but don't underestimate the difference that high of an IQ can make. :) You may have superpowers you don't even know about. I know a guy with an IQ similar to yours and he can do stuff like remember movies word for word.