Does the Sun Revolve Around a Black Hole?

[Nathan Struth]

One question. Does our sun revolve around a black hole? Perhaps Cygnus X-1? I think it does. talk please:)

[Marconius]

Yes, our sun revolves around the super black hole in the center of our galaxy as all of the stars in our galaxy do, (as far as we know). I do not remember how long it takes to go completely around though. And I dont remember the name of the black hole.

[StrongHeartsWin]

Quote by: Marconius Yes, our sun revolves around the super black hole in the center of our galaxy as all of the stars in our galaxy do, (as far as we know). I do not remember how long it takes to go completely around though. And I dont remember the name of the black hole.

Interesting. Are we edging ever so closer to it in a tighter and tighter orbit? Would our sun burn out and life end on Earth before we got pulled into it?

I know that there have been calculations denoting when the sun will burn out in several billion years and collapse itself, but have there been calculations about how long it would take for us to be pulled into the black hole we orbit?

[The Architect]

Our entire galaxy revolves around a super black hole in theory, I takes a few billion years for our entire galaxy to make a full revolution. we may be coming to a point in the revolution were we get closer to the black hole and we could all get sucked in a die, who knows its just a theory. It is beleived that the sun will die and turn into a red giant(and consume earth with fire) in about 4-5 billions years. All humanity may be earsed and the human civilizations will be just a blip in time, just a blip.

[underbear1]

Dick Cheney is way to insignificant for the sun to revolve around him.

[daac87]

it just seems like no matter what earth is going to come to an end along with human life. if its not the sun its the giant black hole and if its not the giant black hole its gonna be humans them selfs with all these wars and stuff

[brien]

Quote by: The Architect Our entire galaxy revolves around a super black hole in theory, I takes a few billion years for our entire galaxy to make a full revolution. we may be coming to a point in the revolution were we get closer to the black hole and we could all get sucked in a die, who knows its just a theory. It is beleived that the sun will die and turn into a red giant(and consume earth with fire) in about 4-5 billions years. All humanity may be earsed and the human civilizations will be just a blip in time, just a blip.

we could all get sucked in a die,

So you think you are going to get out of this life without dying?

[Osborn F Enready]

I think the science showing this theory seems very plausible, so far.

And to quote the Regis Mark V:

"Do not panic, all wil die!"

[Nathan Struth]

WE're digressing please stop changing the subject. So the answer seems to be yes.

[Osborn F Enready]

Who was your last post directed to Nathan?

[rez]

There is also a possibility that our black hole may collide with another black hole (galaxy)

[Nathan Struth]

Nice can't wait till that event! Bring out the champagne! My post was directed to if the sun revolved around a black hole. The answer seems to be yes, the debate's over.

[junior27]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin Interesting. Are we edging ever so closer to it in a tighter and tighter orbit? Would our sun burn out and life end on Earth before we got pulled into it? I know that there have been calculations denoting when the sun will burn out in several billion years and collapse itself, but have there been calculations about how long it would take for us to be pulled into the black hole we orbit?

This assumes that we are not moving outward. Could the big bang theory possbily come into effect here in the regards that we are steadily moving outwards? I have no proof on this, just a thought.

[ericsp23]

If it is true that we are orbiting a black hole there is no particular reason why we would be falling into it. It also is possible that we are spiraling outward or in a stable orbit around it.
There is a common misconception that black holes are like big vacuum cleaners that suck everything into them. That's not really accurate. From the point of view of any object outside of a black hole's event horizon, they are just like any other gravitating body. Their interaction with other matter is in no way different than a star or planet, its just a difference of magnitude. So it is possible to be in a stable orbit around a black hole. And all indications are that we are in such a stable orbit around whatever is at the center of our galaxy.

[Kuroko]

Our sun, our solar system and indeed any solar systems arround the central mass (believed to not only contain a super black hole but thousands of regullar erm.. strength.. ones as well) all have momentum. They have motion which when in orbit keeps us fairly aligned in a curcular orbit.

Put it this way. Our weight multiplied by our speed (angles added to this equation become far too complex to explain in english) divided by the force of the attracting body.

Indeed the super black hole WOULD suck in our solar system were we travelling at this speed and MUCH MUCH closer to the central mass but we are in one of the arms of our gallaxy and fairly far up it, so we are pretty far away in retrospect.

There is no doubt that the central mass is a scary prospect and definitely worthy of the most fear (in terms of capability and power) but the way we are set up, it is much the same as the moon arround the earth (which is also travelling away from us) there is no real chance of us being pulled into the central mass, there would be an almost ten thousand times higher chance of a smaller black hole removing us from existance.. the reason why I use that value is.. lets say by sheer hypothetical chance.. a small black hole hurles us TOWARDS the central mass.. hey, I've seen those proffessional pool players do some amazing things..

[The Architect]

black hole removing us from existance

Isnt it possible that the black hole could suck us into another universe, dimension. Maybe humans wouldnt surivive the trip but Earth could.

[Kuroko]

Well, it wouldn't be the gravity which removes 'us' from existance
The closer a black hole comes to earth the more oxygen would be sucked away from the atmosphere, long before a black hole ever draws in the earth (or any other celestial body) any gasses which are rather light in comparison (duh) would be stripped first.

As for the earth.. The smaller an object gets, when travelling towards a black hole that is (this IS theoretical) the closer it gets to a number of things, one such thing is maximum space an atom takes up through it's physical make up. Roughly 99% of an atom is actually "emptyness" think of it kind of like a balloon in that regard (this is in relation to the size/mass over weight) another thing that would happen is that some thing being pulled directly (the earth would most likely be pulled into an orbit of sorts unless the black hole came at a trajectory dead lining our orbit arround the sun, which mind you, would also suffer an interesting an beautifull fate if such a thing were to occur) Some thing being pulled directly towards a black hole would get ever closer to the speed of light, indeed it shouldn't come close but it would accelerate closer an closer, I know a lot of physicists say a "stretching" would occur, but this just isn't feasable, think about the dimensions of the earth and arround it's curcumferance, lets say the black hole was lined up witht he equator, what would happen is the closer the earth came to a black hole the end closest to it would be under a lot more stress and pull then the end furthest away from it, this is an effect called "rifting" or a "rift" and it would probobly see the earth begin to crumble, and the more space the earth travelled the more breaking appart would happen due to the acceleration of the closer pieces.

Where ever the earth DOES end up it won't be pretty

[Nathan Struth]

lol, please don't falll in the black hole.

[jamesbdunn]

Quote by: Nathan Struth One question. Does our sun revolve around a black hole? Perhaps Cygnus X-1? I think it does. talk please:)

According to mainstream science, black holes are at the cores of most galaxies. Additionally, smaller black holes are scattered throughout our galaxy.

I have an Electrical Engineering background, but I know comparitively nothing of Astrophysics. So the following will read as science fiction. The following should NOT be considered as mainstream science! The following is just my own mental meanderings.


Do Black Holes move with any observable relation to one another? (compensated for photon travel times, influences of gravity, and refraction in stellar dust)

In the electromagnetic world, propogation and resonance must always be considered. Black Holes represent Graviton, mass, and periodic properties.


Dark Energy:

As the atoms of matter are torn apart while entering a Black Hole, a large portion of subatomic particles are released. Neutrino can travel through 2 light years of Lead (Pb) without interacting, I would tend to suspect that many subatomic particles leave the confines of Black Holes unobstructed until they can react with matter/energy properties outside the region of the Black Hole where the atoms are torn apart. Might this be a source of Dark Energy?


Black Holes devoid of matter:

Graviton exihibit some properties similar to electromagnetics, like resonance. Periodic particles beating against one another will display resonant properties like visible spectrum interference patterns. Graviton at a subatomic level are suspected by the scientific community to display resonant properties.

So, perhaps black holes are devoid of a significant amount of matter, if any. Perhaps Black Holes are three dimensional graviton resonant nodes within our Universe. Gravity, without mass.

The amplitude of the resonant regions would be the result of the influence of gravitons everywhere. Perhaps the subatomic particles that are generated while atoms disassociate help to confine graviton. The large graviton concentrations periodically spaced in three dimensions act as a type of anchor for all mass as we sense it.


An expanding, or rather oscillating, Universe:

The Universe is presently considered to be expanding slightly faster than what would allow the Universe to collapse onto itself. But it is doing so at a rate very close to the critical value between collapse and expansion.

If the Graviton nodes are anchors and the graviton flux throughout the Universe imparts fractional forces over large expanses non-linearly. Then the mass of the Universe may oscillate over long periods of time amongst propogating graviton nodes. Like a blob of mercury on a plate with a vertical vibration component. Given time, the strands of graviton will flex in density and begin pulling matter back towards the centers of graviton densities.


The Spin of Black Holes:

Graviton nodes exist in many different volumes. Spin might be characterized by the masses in orbit around the graviton node, rather than the graviton node itself. Or perhaps a graviton node has a multi-dimensional spin as part of its graviton properties.


Our Universe much different than it appears:

Given that our observable Universe is highly manipulated by matter and energy throughout the travel of photons, I have no idea as to what the Universe actually looks like; nor the spacings or propogation of black holes, both large and small. A photon traveling from a galaxy with a black hole as its center would continuously be pulled along the axis between the black hole and the observer. So a lens effect occurs causing photons to cross the central axis at some point during its propogation. The larger the Black Hole, the stronger the lense effect, and the further the apparent distance to the galaxy. The galaxy is actually much closer than it appears.


Alternative form of propulsion:

In the electromagnetic spectrum, light propogates naturally and omnidirectionally in-general. Through certain manipulations light can lase monochromatically along a single vector. If graviton would allow for a similar manipulation, then an alternate form of propulsion becomes feasible. A graviton node might be influenced into propogating along a vector by disturbing the flux of sub-atomic particles surrounding the Black Hole.

A Chicago based research team has been investigating a new form of nuclear energy dubbed "Total Anihilation" since before 2000. They are attempting to create a complex waveform to disturb the nuclear bonds of atoms. If successful, they will be able to produce large concentrations of subatomic particles. If the subatomic particles can be isolated, they can be used to provide a multitude of new processes based upon sub-atomic particle manipulations.

Related to the above, if a small Black Hole (Graviton Node) were to have a non-uniform density of subatomic particles influencing the intense graviton flux, perhaps the black hole could be made to propogate and pull surrounding matter along with its graviton density. Intergalactic travel of worlds becoming feasible in a mental exercise sort of way.

Just thinking way outside the box,


James Dunn
james.dunn@excite.com

[Kuroko]

Interesting thoughts James.
Let me respond to some of them.

Massless black holes:

These were actually theorised by a number of physicists, these are believed to be what happens when a neutron star collapses, where the neutrons cease to exist afterwards therefore having a massless blackhole.

Oscilating Universe.

I have my own theory for this, once mass (as we know it) goes past a certain point, dark matter would begin to fill the hole left betweent he expanding mass and the center of the universe, once enough has done so the affect of gravity and dark matter pulling on the mass should brint he universe in, this is of course assuming dark matter is the force pulling against gravity like they say

Our Universe:

A lot of light which leaves from one place travelling to another is still effected by regullar invterval red shifting (natural red shifting) however, I will admit, light affected by gravity will also be subject to artificial red shifting, which would remove the ability to detect the age of the light and it's distance travelled.

Alternative form of propulsion:

Gravity fields are a VERY worth while effort in the form of propulsions..

I mean the more I think about it (I have a lot already) the more I realise it is necissary. There would not even be a feeling of movement inside a gravity field propelled vehicle, UFO's in general are great flying objects when you get down to the science of them.

The flying saucer just in shape is a great one, imagine if you will throwing a frisbie through the air, the spinning of the disk creates a gyro effect, which means any force attempting to divert the frisbie off it's course has to also deal with the momentum of the spinning body, a force ON TOP of it's directional movement.

After that, flying saucers, ufo's, hell I'll even say it outright, Government(s) or extraterestrial sourced flying means also have another advantage, which is the effect of gravity, any gravity fiels being projected in any direction will have a free fall feeling for a pilot, in other words.. no feeling at all. This allows for manouvers almost unimaginable to us right now.

It would be similar to the feeling a skydiver would feel, weightless as they travel towards the earth, without the wind resistance of course, kind of like how astronaughts practice in a large cargo plane going up and down equal in speed to the fall rate of gravity.

For each force of G applied no matter how fast either the person or the craft falls into that field, the effect of freefall will be the same, so the pilot will never really feel his own manouvers... making what we have seen UFO's do on T.V seem all the more realistic... as for your means of achieving it.. erm. I'm going to actually not comment on it.