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Thread: Global Warming

  1. #997
    Liberated thinker xyzer's Avatar
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    Here is a recent development that may enlighten those who are not Gorefixated?
    Scientists Send Letter to UN: Give Up Futile Climate Change Battle | NewsBusters.org

    It reflects my repeated doubts about the influence of humans on natural climate changes? Cervantes was right about humans..they continually attack "windmills".

    Computer models are not a sure way to predict climate change? The changes in climate experienced recently are within historic norms? Could it just be that humans have not influenced climate change and may be wasting money and resources in trying to change natural cycles?
    Thus we play the fools with the time, and the spirits of the wise sit in the clouds and mock us.

  2. #998
    Volcanic Erupter
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    I wonder how many of those scientists signing that open letter will now be ostracised, accused of being mouthpieces for greedy oil companies and fired from their jobs.

  3. #999
    Volcanic Erupter
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    So do you drive a "Prius", have you replaced at least 5 conventional light bulbs with the more expensive but energy-efficient ones, and how many trees have you planted today? And then when your done planting about 60 billion trees, replacing about 1.5 billion lightbulbs and all those gas guzzling SUVs, you've only reduced CO2 emisions by an eighth of what is needed to meet the IPCC's goal -which we don't even know will reduce global warming at all.

  4. #1000
    Son of X51 Compugasm's Avatar
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    I actually unplug appliances when I don't use them, light my apartment with just two light bulbs, and drive less than 5k miles a year. But that is because I'm a cheap bastard.

  5. #1001
    Chief Chris's Avatar
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    I know its been quite a while since I was in this thread, and apologies if this has been brought up before, but I came across this:

    graphic

    Ethanol is not the way my friends.
    Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.

  6. #1002
    Libertarian Keith Hamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Chris View Post
    I know its been quite a while since I was in this thread, and apologies if this has been brought up before, but I came across this:

    graphic

    Ethanol is not the way my friends.
    I think that many have made that point already. And, combined with the previous post, there probably isn't a solution.

    I think the real way to go would be thermonuclear war. Drastic reductions in human population combined with nuclear winter would definitely counteract the impacts of global warming.

    The real question is, what is the price we are willing to pay to counteract this potential threat?

    Is the threat real enough to start to actively reduce human populations?

    Keith
    The great thread killer.

  7. #1003
    Volcanic Erupter
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    Scientists have demonstrated that the warming of the last 150 years is not unprecedented or the least bit unusual in historical terms. In fact the record shows that similar or greater warming has taken place numerous times in the past, even before mankind came on the scene. If the cause of the warming is not natural this time, what caused it before?

    Note on graph presentation: The heavier temperature lines 160,000 BP to present reflect more data points for this time period, not necessarily greater temperature variability. New Antarctic Ice Core Data

  8. #1004
    Chief Chris's Avatar
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    Nice ommission there Rmunez

    How about looking at recent co2 levels here.

    Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.

  9. #1005
    Volcanic Erupter
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    A closer look (from the same site):

    This graph (Data 4) illustrates the most recent data set of actual air measurements. It shows how temperatures and CO2 concentrations have increased in recent times. A linear trend line fitted to the temperature data would indicate that the critical +2C level would be reached in about 40 years.

    But we don't know that the trend is linear. Recent research indicates that it is probably exponential. Or it may be that peak temperatures are more important than mean temperatures. In either of these cases the +2C threshold would be reached much sooner. New Ice Core Data: A Closer Look

  10. #1006
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    Before the industrial revolution and the current allegedly elevated CO2 emissions, Greenland was warmer than it is now:
    Radiocarbon dates of emergent organic remains along the western margin of Istorvet ice cap (70.8°N, 22.2°W) indicate a time when the ice cap was smaller than at present. This ice cap, similar to others in east Greenland, exhibits “historic” moraines ~1-2 km in front of the presently retreating ice margins. At Istorvet, ice margin retreat has exposed a thin (~8 cm) organic horizon and in situ plant remains in bedrock cracks lie less than 10 m away from the present ice margin (453 m asl in 2006). Clusters of multi-species vegetation also were found on two nuntaks (to 719 m asl) located ~3 km from the historic drift limit. All organic remains were located in protected bedrock lees. On the west side of the ice-cap, vegetation is sparse but present at elevations near the ice margin. Both the ice cap geometry and the presence of overrun organic remains indicate past temperatures at least as warm as those at present. At Istorvet plant remains yielded 12 number of radiocarbon dates. These ages, when converted to calendar years, range from A.D. 400 to 1014, with the largest concentration from A.D. 800 to 1014. This work hones the conclusion of Funder (1978) who reported general climate deterioration since 800 BC. Moreover, it indicates warm conditons at this latitude at the time of Norse colonization of Greenland. "C13A-04" in fm07

  11. #1007
    Liberated thinker xyzer's Avatar
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    Kieth mentions a potential threat to humankind? I'm not convinced that humans ( anthropogenicCO2) are the cause of climate change?
    Science & Environmental Policy Project: Press Release Dec 10, 2007
    I
    So human solutions(other than adaptation ) appear useless and wasteful.

    As this reference shows climate variations are naturally caused so all this posturing and alarm over human creation of CO2 are demagoguery.. We must adapt to climate change. And we must remember that geological.global change is very slow in human terms. This gives us time to use and develop technology that will prolong our survival.
    Press Release from

    Science & Environmental Policy Project

    10 December 2007
    Contact: Dr S Fred Singer, President, SEPP singer@SEPP.org 703-920-2744



    Climate warming is naturally caused and shows no human influence:

    Carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant.



    Climate scientists at the University of Rochester, the University of Alabama, and the University of Virginia report that observed patterns of temperature changes (‘fingerprints’) over the last thirty years are not in accord with what greenhouse models predict and can better be explained by natural factors, such as solar variability. Therefore, climate change is ‘unstoppable’ and cannot be affected or modified by controlling the emission of greenhouse gases, such as CO2, as is proposed in current legislation.



    These results are in conflict with the conclusions of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and also with some recent research publications based on essentially the same data. However, they are supported by the results of the US-sponsored Climate Change Science Program (CCSP).



    The report is published in the December 2007 issue of the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society [DOI: 10.1002/joc.1651]. The authors are Prof. David H. Douglass (Univ. of Rochester), Prof. John R. Christy (Univ. of Alabama), Benjamin D. Pearson (graduate student), and Prof. S. Fred Singer (Univ. of Virginia).



    The fundamental question is whether the observed warming is natural or anthropogenic (human-caused). Lead author David Douglass said: “The observed pattern of warming, comparing surface and atmospheric temperature trends, does not show the characteristic fingerprint associated with greenhouse warming. The inescapable conclusion is that the human contribution is not significant and that observed increases in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases make only a negligible contribution to climate warming.”



    Co-author John Christy said: “Satellite data and independent balloon data agree that atmospheric warming trends do not exceed those of the surface. Greenhouse models, on the other hand, demand that atmospheric trend values be 2-3 times greater. We have good reason, therefore, to believe that current climate models greatly overestimate the effects of greenhouse gases. Satellite observations suggest that GH models ignore negative feedbacks, produced by clouds and by water vapor, that diminish the warming effects of carbon dioxide.”



    Co-author S. Fred Singer said: “The current warming trend is simply part of a natural cycle of climate warming and cooling that has been seen in ice cores, deep-sea sediments, stalagmites, etc., and published in hundreds of papers in peer-reviewed journals. The mechanism for producing such cyclical climate changes is still under discussion; but they are most likely caused by variations in the solar wind and associated magnetic fields that affect the flux of cosmic rays incident on the earth’s atmosphere. In turn, such cosmic rays are believed to influence cloudiness and thereby control the amount of sunlight reaching the earth’s surface—and thus the climate.” Our research demonstrates that the ongoing rise of atmospheric CO2 has only a minor influence on climate change. We must conclude, therefore, that attempts to control CO2 emissions are ineffective and pointless. – but very costly.

    posted by Fred Singer @ 11:36 AM
    Thus we play the fools with the time, and the spirits of the wise sit in the clouds and mock us.

  12. #1008
    Hot Lava Century 25's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: J-G-H-Y View Post


    So I herd u liek AlGorez
    It is always easiest to shoot the messenger..

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