Global Warming

[rmnunez]

I'd agree that single minor instances of colder weather shouldn't be held up to dispute global warming (though its always done with higher temperatures to show global warming). But if China is experiencing the coldest winter in 50 years and millions are stranded as roads and rail are buried under snow, and hundreds of miles of western desert in the US is in the same condition, with New York reporting severe cold and huge snowfall, it does look like a bit more than isolated and minor contradicitions.

I don't know whether this is due to la nina, changes in jet stream flows or some other factor that can also be blamed on CO2. I just think its misleading to speak of global warming when the effects are just more cold.

[Chris]

please

The rising temps are not single minor instances. They are global.

China and new york and new mexico, are almost singular instances cause 99% of the rest of the world are excluded.

[Phil_80]

The melting of the Arctic ice is a myth. The size of the ice caps fluctuate considerable over a series of months let alone a series of years.

University of Illinois - Cryosphere Today

Given the complexity and frequency of changes in global temperatures there is no basis for arguing that mankind is having an impact. Profiteering opportunists like Gore constantly warp the realities in order to shape the arguments for their convenience. Gore sees the bandwagon so on he gets. To assume he gains nothing from his crusade is hugely naive and his involvement in companies like occidental only add hilarity to his hypocrisy. Millions are poured into the global warming "problem" because billions can be made out of it.

The planet is clearly undergoing higher temperatures than but the CO2 argument is seriously flawed. All evidence suggests CO2 increases after the temperature has increased. To assume mankind, who has only been here for a blink of an eye, can destroy the world is very vain. The world has coped with far worse. All the real evidence is ignored. People like green peace achieve nothing but a warm self righteousness for themselves. The snows in the sahara, china and Jerusalem are ignore because they flow against the populist current. Same with the increase in ice sheets and the fact that if mankind's CO2 is taking global CO2 levels to an unprecedented level, which it isn't, we are actually lengthening the existence of all the oxygen dependent organisms on the planet.

[Century 25]

[quote=Phil_80;476296]The melting of the Arctic ice is a myth. The size of the ice caps fluctuate considerable over a series of months let alone a series of years.

I got yer myth here Phil : Baffin Island Ice Caps Shrink By 50 Percent Since 1950s, Expected To Disappear by Middle of Century

[Phil_80]

What does that prove? Ice caps have disappeared and reappeared, increased and decreased over the history of the planet. This is nothing new. People think this is a new phenomenon?????

[xyzer]

Yay Verily Phil! People also get confused about the passage of geological climate change as opposed to human measures and implied standards.? What is the norm? An Ice Age can last for thousands of years with intervening warming periods. Climate change is subject to many natural influences.

We haven't had any very accurate measurement of global temperatures at all levels of the atmosphere until the last 25 or 30 years. And before that temp was measured at ground levels and not very well recorded or correlated? Mongo the cave man didn't have a thermometer?

Who was measuring Ice levels on Baffin Island a century ago? Inook the Eskimo? Did he meaurre it with instruments or just by how long it took him to chop through for his fishing hole? Or how easy it was to travel by sled from one part of the Island to another? Did he measure it precisely?

Me thinks its all part of the myth created about global warming and its affects? Sort of a reverse vertigo accompanied by cacaphonous bowel sounds to warn us all of what MAY, or MIGHT.happen if we don't change our ways.!

[Dunfunkin']

Quote by: Phil_80 What does that prove? Ice caps have disappeared and reappeared, increased and decreased over the history of the planet. This is nothing new. People think this is a new phenomenon?????

Moreover, the Northwest Passage was navigable in both 1903 & 1945 too.

[Century 25]

No xyer.. the only confused people are those listening to the Bush syndicate's propaganda.

Visit here: Global Warming in North America That from: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.. you can click on your area.. you may spot some of those early warning signs near you.

[rmnunez]

From the link Century provided:

With additional warming, sea level is projected to rise from half a foot to 3 feet (15-92 cm) more during the next 100 years.

Fifty three centimeters (the average of what it is expected sea levels could rise) over the next 100 years would be a little over half a centimeter per year (that's about a quarter of an inch). This doesn't seem so disastrous to me.

[Chris]

Apparently not, with head-in-the-sand deniers.

[Century 25]

Is Earth the New Venus? | The Daily Galaxy: News from Planet Earth & Beyond

[xyzer]

Thats a guffaw century. Did the Venusians try to change the weak gravity? The earth has had climate change for hundreds of millions of years. What caused it? Human beings burning fossil fuels? Or natural forces? Look at it with logic, not Goremania?
While living in Arizona some years back I stood on the edge of a mountain at the 8,000 foot level and saw under my feet the shells and traces of ancient ocean dwellers? 30 million years ago the area where I now live was covered by an ocean? Give us a break!

[Century 25]

Ho ho xyer. No one here ever said we haven't had climate changes over earth's history. The problem we are facing in our era is global warming due to human activities during the very recent period beginning about 200 years ago.

As for Venus.. it's a smokin' example of the greenhouse effect you get with too much C02 in your atmosphere. Visit NASA: NASA - Home You can look up all the data.. or visit:

Venus: Inhabited World? :: Astrobiology Magazine - earth science - evolution distribution Origin of life universe - life beyond :: Astrobiology is study of earth science evolution distribution Origin of life in universe terrestrial

Btw.. Gore was just the messenger. I expect any who follow his example will suffer as many fools..

[Dunfunkin']

Quote by: Century 25 Ho ho xyer. No one here ever said we haven't had climate changes over earth's history. The problem we are facing in our era is global warming due to human activities during the very recent period beginning about 200 years ago.

Well that's the whole point of the debate, is it not? Whether the current increase in temperature is anthropogenic or not? If you subscribe to the notion it tends to be in wholehearted manner, sometimes to the exclusion of reason, it seems. Al Gore, for example, has claimed that "the debate is over" (as for that matter has Governor Terminator), but with an increasing number of eminent scientists starting to question the basis of the IPCC's findings, the truth is that it has barely started.

Science ought to be about impartial interpretation and explanation of fact, but since the politicians hijacked the agenda only the facts that fit the path they wish to tread are given credence. Anyone who goes "off-message" is immediately decried as a heretic in the pay of vested interests.

We're all possessed of enquiring minds - should we not all be suspicious of a debate that has become so patently unbalanced?

[ruiner]

The temperature across the US for the last 30 days has been slightly above the 1971-2000 average
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...30day.mean.gif

[ruiner]

Quote by: Phil_80 The melting of the Arctic ice is a myth. The size of the ice caps fluctuate considerable over a series of months let alone a series of years.

It isn't a myth:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosph...rrent.anom.jpg

And remember that's extent, not thickness. The area extent loss during last summer's dramatic melt has been gained again by freezing, but how thick that ice can get during this winter will be an important factor in how it fares during the melt period this summer.

[Century 25]

Quote by: Dunfunkin' Well that's the whole point of the debate, is it not? Whether the current increase in temperature is anthropogenic or not? If you subscribe to the notion it tends to be in wholehearted manner, sometimes to the exclusion of reason, it seems. Al Gore, for example, has claimed that "the debate is over" (as for that matter has Governor Terminator), but with an increasing number of eminent scientists starting to question the basis of the IPCC's findings, the truth is that it has barely started. Science ought to be about impartial interpretation and explanation of fact, but since the politicians hijacked the agenda only the facts that fit the path they wish to tread are given credence. Anyone who goes "off-message" is immediately decried as a heretic in the pay of vested interests. We're all possessed of enquiring minds - should we not all be suspicious of a debate that has become so patently unbalanced?

"Al Gore, for example, has claimed that "the debate is over"

No. As I mentioned.. Gore is merely the messenger of the bad news, not the cause.

"Science ought to be about impartial interpretation and explanation of fact, but since the politicians hijacked the agenda"

Agenda..? No. Science is about the facts. And those facts are well accepted by the world's leading scientists.

.

[Dunfunkin']

Quote by: Century 25 "Al Gore, for example, has claimed that "the debate is over" No. As I mentioned.. Gore is merely the messenger of the bad news, not the cause.

True - but the problem is that he believes he is more than a messenger, and presents himself as such. Because he is who he is, his word is accepted as gospel by many. He is a classic example of how the messenger can make the message. Unfortunately, a rather large questionmark hangs over the 'facts' as he portrays them.

Science and Public Policy Institute - 35 Inconvenient Truths: The errors in Al Gore’s movie

Quote by: Century 25 "Science ought to be about impartial interpretation and explanation of fact, but since the politicians hijacked the agenda" "Agenda..? No. Science is about the facts. And those facts are well accepted by the world's leading scientists.

And as I believe I mentioned, an increasing number of those leading scientists are questioning those facts.

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

[xyzer]

The problem we are facing in our era is global warming due to human activities during the very recent period beginning about 200 years ago.

200 years ago there wasn't enough industrializton and anthropogenic CO2 created to influence anything? What are you talking about? It wasn't til' after WW2 that industrialization boomed.

Dunfunkin speaks with 'straight tongue"! We've yet to have convincing evidence that humans are the main influencer on warming? As more scientific study in undertaken we may find we are responsible or may not be responsible? The debate is far from over!

You, Gore and others are basing you frenetic beliefs on a correlation between the warming trend and an increase in human caused CO2 emissions? Human caused CO2 emissions are some small fraction of the 1% total CO2 gas in the earths atmosphere? Considering the other natural influences on climate(the Sun, its rays and magnetic changes, cosmic particles, continetal drift, the earths eliptical orbit and wobbles around its axis, ocean currents, atmospheric moisture and cloud effects,volcanic actions and other natural(NON MANMADE) influences you'r stretching creditiblity?

[Foxfyre]

Quote by: xyzer 200 years ago there wasn't enough industrializton and anthropogenic CO2 created to influence anything? What are you talking about? It wasn't til' after WW2 that industrialization boomed. Dunfunkin speaks with 'straight tongue"! We've yet to have convincing evidence that humans are the main influencer on warming? As more scientific study in undertaken we may find we are responsible or may not be responsible? The debate is far from over! You, Gore and others are basing you frenetic beliefs on a correlation between the warming trend and an increase in human caused CO2 emissions? Human caused CO2 emissions are some small fraction of the 1% total CO2 gas in the earths atmosphere? Considering the other natural influences on climate(the Sun, its rays and magnetic changes, cosmic particles, continetal drift, the earths eliptical orbit and wobbles around its axis, ocean currents, atmospheric moisture and cloud effects,volcanic actions and other natural(NON MANMADE) influences you'r stretching creditiblity?

I'm all for this global warming stuff though. After more than a decade of severe drought here in the desert southwest, northern New Mexico is mostly a 'disaster area' due to all the snow. Elephant Butte lake, our state's largest, was down to a 10th of capacity with experts predicting at least 20 years of normal precipitation necessary to refill it. I think it might exceed normal levels this spring. We are in an El Nino year that was supposed to create a warmer than normal winter and well below normal precip. The opposite has occurred.

I sure hope experts on other things are more accurate than they have been on long term climate change or even shorter term climate conditions. The fact is, we have ALWAYS had new records for highs and low in every year and will probably continue to do so for as far ahead as we can see. It happened before global warming, it is happening during any global warming, and it will happen long after the global warming crisis is no longer a crisis.

Meanwhile, lets focus on increasing benefits to humankind in general when it is absolutely obvious we have no power to change long range climate shifts.