Global Warming

[Angry Citizen]

I'd like to add that I don't want to get bogged down in this debate proving another theory on global warming, my goal is to point out that there are valid criticisms of climate research and that climate research is subject to intense politicization.

In other words, you'd like to pretend you know something about the problem while advancing your side's political agenda in its entirety as opposed to thinking for yourself. What an obvious attempt at a cop-out. "I'm not here to advance a competitive theory! I'm just here to ignore basic chemistry for political reasons!"

Yeah, lets all just ignore the science. Even if the Earth weren't about to get a lot wetter (good for swimming, yeah?), I sure do like the smell of car exhaust in the morning, and the taste of engine oil in my water, and the enormous debt piling up because we have to import most of our oil, and the impending financial collapse from the finite supply of fossil fuels. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Heaven forbid we ever get off it.

[TheChamp]

In other words, you'd like to pretend you know something about the problem while advancing your side's political agenda in its entirety as opposed to thinking for yourself. What an obvious attempt at a cop-out. "I'm not here to advance a competitive theory! I'm just here to ignore basic chemistry for political reasons!"

Untrue. I am trying to debate the thesis I already articulated instead of another tangential issue. None of us are scientists and I think it requires a particular type of arrogance to think we know something without ever reviewing the data or learning how to decipher it.

Yeah, lets all just ignore the science. Even if the Earth weren't about to get a lot wetter (good for swimming, yeah?), I sure do like the smell of car exhaust in the morning, and the taste of engine oil in my water, and the enormous debt piling up because we have to import most of our oil, and the impending financial collapse from the finite supply of fossil fuels. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Heaven forbid we ever get off it.

I don't have any problem with green technology. If you knew anything you'd know that we've had the technology available for a long time, and I've always been a proponent. I also know we are destroying the environment through deforestation and pollution (remember that?). Global warming is not only a distraction from real environmental concerns, but nothing about what is emerging out of the political side of this global warming fear mongering will solve any of those problems. Carbon taxes are admittedly used to fund global bureaucracy run by the same exact group of people who own the large energy companies, the IMF, and other organizations which require keeping the 3rd world away from generating their own resources.

[Chris the Chees]

How many more threads do we need to see this denial nonsense debunked?

[TheChamp]

On a site with such a mainstream bias, many many times. Did you have a specific disagreement I can address?

[Cruella]

There are a number of threads devoted to this subject however. I shall merge this thread with one of the others.

[Chris the Chees]

On a site with such a mainstream bias, many many times. Did you have a specific disagreement I can address?

My objection is that this topic has been discussed already in multiple lengthy threads, and thus far nobody has been able to show that this issue is anything other than a non-issue cooked up into scandal.

[soothsayer]

i suggest you read this, especially where it describes "the father of modern U.S.public education" john dewey's esoteric philosophy (itself a radical divrsion from classical liberalism) and how it has been further perverted into 'new liberalism' which philosophically dominates the public education system and mass media from which we all suffer today:

Home page of classical-liberal.com

I look forward to a continued discussion in a more appropriate thread, namely "socialism and its lack of appeal"

[Cruella]

Global Warming threads merged.

[TheChamp]

My objection is that this topic has been discussed already in multiple lengthy threads, and thus far nobody has been able to show that this issue is anything other than a non-issue cooked up into scandal.

Well, you haven't addressed any of my point.

[soothsayer]

My objection is that this topic has been discussed already in multiple lengthy threads, and thus far nobody has been able to show that this issue is anything other than a non-issue cooked up into scandal.

You are referring to "global warming", of course?

[livefree]

The Japan Society of Energy and Resources (JSER), the academic society representing scientists from the energy and resource fields, published a report about a year ago. The government commissioned report criticizes computer climate modeling and also says that the US ground temperature data set, used to back up the man-made warming claims, is too myopic.

The report starts: "The hypothesis that the majority of global warming can be ascribed to the Greenhouse Effect is mistaken."

It never fails to astound and amuse me just how extremely gullible you denier cultists are, especially when you swallow some really idiotic propaganda like this and then regurgitate it onto the forum without ever checking the validity of it. LOL. Almost everything you claim is a lie. The JSER is not an "academic society" like the Royal Society or our National Academy of Science, it is a quasi-professional association promoting the interests of the energy industry. This wasn't a "report" by the group, it was a collection of some emails between five members. It was not "government commissioned" or even authorized by the JSER and again, it was not a "report". Here's a good debunking. I could find a number of others if you want.


JSER, land of the climate warming sun

March 29, 2009 by greenfyre

Earlier this year we were subjected to a spate of blog posts and faux news about a report from a “Japanese Commission” of “Top Japanese Scientists” that rejected anthropogenic climate change. The ‘report‘ was allegedly the result of work by 5 scientists from the Japan Society of Energy and Resources.

This piece of climate change Denier spam would be scarcely worth mentioning except that in 2 months the Japan Society of Energy and Resources has gone from barely a dozen google hits (English language) to over 12,000, as far as I can tell almost all of them touting the Denier nonsense. As well it has appeared in several of the predictable bastions of anti-science and ignorance such as the National Post and The Australian.

So it appears that this is yet another piece of climate change Denierism that will live eternally as a zombie (ie keep rising from the dead) so I thought it would be useful to have the debunking handy.

The vacuous nature of the so-called ‘report’ and the lack of credential of most of it’s participants has been discussed by James’ Empty Blog in “Much ado about nothing” (as reported in “Japanese climate crank necromancy” and “Same Old Same Old, The Japanese Edition”), so I will summarize and refer you to Annan’s blog for the details.

The ‘report’ is nothing more than an email discussion among the participants … the end. No new information, no new analysis, nada. For the most part the Deniers merely invoke 3 tired old fables, as follows:

* Global Warming has halted (not this idiocy again)
* It’s the sun
* The Models are flawed/inadequate

For those who care I will offer a quick debunking at the end of this post. What I do want to add to the debunking of this silliness is a short profile of just who is the Japan Society of Energy and Resources (JSER).

JSER is a quasi-professional association “to promote the science and technology concerning energy and resources and thus to facilitate cooperation among industry academia and governmental sectors for coping with the problems in this field.”

Predictably (given the name) the association seems to be dominated by engineers, and it’s Executive by industry representatives.

Nothing wrong with any of that. Professional associations abound in every country to promote every aspect of the pure and applied sciences.

Nor is there necessarily anything untoward about publishing a discussion among it’s members about a topic of current significance in science. That too is common enough with such associations.

However, I confess I have some serious questions about an organization that exists “to promote the science…” actually promoting the sort of anti-science Denierism that this ‘report’ is. If their stance cannot be defended with peer reviewed literature then they should offer a damn good explanation why.

Just to be absolutely clear:

* JSER is an association, it does no research as an organization whatsoever, and that “none” includes climate research;
* JSER is in no way associated with the Japanese Government or with any research institution in any way;
* there is no “report”, it is nothing more than the transcript of an email discussion among 5 people;
* the participants are NOT “a commission”, nor are they “top scientists.” Only one (1) of them was even a climatologist, and he was the one defending the fact of anthropogenic climate change
* there is no new information, nor new analysis offered. It is just a rehash of the same old Denier dreck.


***

[TheChamp]

The company does extensive research, feel free to use google translator and view their website which lists all of the research they do, much of it commissioned by the government.

Google Translate

A lot of their more recent stuff is even in support of the CO2 theory.

Get your facts from their sources instead of some paranoid debunking site and you'll know instead of guess next time.