Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

TehNinja · Sep 8, 2006, 07:08 pm

Do you believe in a new earth or an old earth? I personally believe in a new earth.

RickSp · Sep 8, 2006, 08:06 pm

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Do you believe in a new earth or an old earth? I personally believe in a new earth.

Really? So, our understanding of geology, biology, astronomy, and physics among other fields of study, are all wrong? Do you have any rational argument to support your view?

Sonart · Sep 8, 2006, 08:46 pm

.

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

Really? So, our understanding of geology, biology, astronomy, and physics among other fields of study, are all wrong? Do you have any rational argument to support your view?

Yeah... the Bible tells him so.

.

PatrickHenry · Sep 8, 2006, 09:32 pm

Ever study geology? Ever been to the Grand Canyon in Arizona and try to comprehend how the hell it was made?

The planet is old...billions of years old...

**Chris** · Sep 8, 2006, 09:46 pm

But to the hardliners PH, God made it :)

Lullaby Chainer · Sep 8, 2006, 09:48 pm

I always get excited when I see new members like TehNinja or Shield77..

It's just so EASY when you have mountains of evidence on your side.

I'm very curious. In your best scientific voice, please explain why you think the earth is new?

PatrickHenry · Sep 8, 2006, 10:01 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chris

But to the hardliners PH, God made it :)

Well, God still made it. He just has TIME...lots of TIME! Since He's the creator of the space/time continuum, his resources along that line are limitless.

TehNinja · Sep 9, 2006, 02:23 am

First, do we agree that the universe and our planet came into existance at the same time?

Zinkovich · Sep 9, 2006, 02:33 am

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

First, do we agree that the universe and our planet came into existance at the same time?

Why would someone make such an assumption based on the very limited data we have concerning the formation of cosmic bodies?

My answer is "I don't know, and would not jump to assumptions because I see a lack of data".

**Jack** · Sep 9, 2006, 02:46 am

Quote:

First, do we agree that the universe and our planet came into existance at the same time?

I'm willing to pretend I do just to see someone try to provide evidence of a young earth that is not biblical.

TehNinja · Sep 9, 2006, 03:04 am

Alright, spiral galaxies, they have been observed with our advances in technology. They undergo huge forces (centrifugal) as they spin. This causes them to come apart after only a few rotations. Each rotation lasts a few thousand years. Why are there still thousands to millions of spiral galaxies if they spin themselves out after mere thousands of years? Is something making spiral galaxies?

Second, moon temparature. The surrounding space around the moon is 3 degrees above absolute zero. Shouldn't the moon be frozen solid if it has been around for billions of years? Recent discoveries show that the moon is still hot inside and has occasional very short volcanic eruptions.

Short period comets. The milky way has lots of "short period" comets. They have a life of about 2 to 10 thousand years. If our universe is billions of years old, shouldn't they all have died by now?

The shrinking sun, as you well know the sun is composed of mostly hydrogen and helium. It burns this fuel to produce radiation. If it burns fuel it loses mass, correct? It burns this at a rate of about 10 miles per year. Assuming that it mantained the same rate, billions of years ago it would have been twice the size of what it is now.

Coal, in recent discoveries, trees have been found embedded in coal. If coal takes millions of years to form, wouldn't the termites and various other creatures have eaten the trees out ?

The earth's magnetic field is known to 'decay' at a rate of 5% every hundred years. Working backwards, and assuming a maximum plausible initial strength, this puts an age limit on the earth's magnet at only a few thousand years.

PatrickHenry · Sep 9, 2006, 03:10 am

TNinja, you need to source your allegations...

TehNinja · Sep 9, 2006, 03:13 am

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Quote by: PatrickHenry

TNinja, you need to source your allegations...

I never see anyone on this site do it. I just have to because i'm the minority.

Lullaby Chainer · Sep 9, 2006, 03:15 am

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

I never see anyone on this site do it. I just have to because i'm the minority.

No, dear, because your claims are ridiculous. On this site, if anyone requests that one cites their sources, they politely do so. They don't whine about it. We can't take you seriously if you don't back up your claims.

**Matt W** · Sep 9, 2006, 05:27 am

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Quote by: TehNinja

I never see anyone on this site do it. I just have to because i'm the minority.

Wrong. You want to claim something, source it. That's how it works.

**Pooeypants** · Sep 9, 2006, 07:05 am

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Alright, spiral galaxies, they have been observed with our advances in technology. They undergo huge forces (centrifugal) as they spin. This causes them to come apart after only a few rotations. Each rotation lasts a few thousand years. Why are there still thousands to millions of spiral galaxies if they spin themselves out after mere thousands of years? Is something making spiral galaxies?

Are you awhile of a concept called gravity?

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Second, moon temparature. The surrounding space around the moon is 3 degrees above absolute zero. Shouldn't the moon be frozen solid if it has been around for billions of years? Recent discoveries show that the moon is still hot inside and has occasional very short volcanic eruptions.

Incorrect, the ambient temperature of the Moon is dictated by the amount of sunlight it gets. It has NO volcanic activity for the past billions of years since it formed.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Short period comets. The milky way has lots of "short period" comets. They have a life of about 2 to 10 thousand years. If our universe is billions of years old, shouldn't they all have died by now?

How do these comets form? And where are they seen? I am not aware of them, please enlighten me.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

The shrinking sun, as you well know the sun is composed of mostly hydrogen and helium. It burns this fuel to produce radiation. If it burns fuel it loses mass, correct? It burns this at a rate of about 10 miles per year. Assuming that it mantained the same rate, billions of years ago it would have been twice the size of what it is now.

Who told you that? Where's your mathematics? Do you know what happens inside the sun? There is no burning, there is no combustion; it's all fusion.

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Quote by: TehNinja

Coal, in recent discoveries, trees have been found embedded in coal. If coal takes millions of years to form, wouldn't the termites and various other creatures have eaten the trees out ?

You mean fossilised tree remains?

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

The earth's magnetic field is known to 'decay' at a rate of 5% every hundred years. Working backwards, and assuming a maximum plausible initial strength, this puts an age limit on the earth's magnet at only a few thousand years.

Did you know that every hundred thousand years, the field will flip poles? Strange how that explains the weakening and strengthening of it but without a lame goddidit solution.

RickSp · Sep 9, 2006, 07:19 am

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

First, do we agree that the universe and our planet came into existance at the same time?

At the same time. Not necessarily. Why would you make that argument?

RickSp · Sep 9, 2006, 07:36 am

OK so you have found a source of Young Earth fantasy. Share it with us. These claims are ludicrous. Much of this foolishness has been debunked over and over. Check out :

Is the Earth Young?

Specific Creationist Arguments

Young-Earth Arguments: A Second Look

The Age of the Earth

How Old is the Earth - A Response to “Scientific” Creationism

Milton Bradley · Sep 9, 2006, 08:00 am

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Alright, spiral galaxies, they have been observed with our advances in technology. They undergo huge forces (centrifugal) as they spin. This causes them to come apart after only a few rotations. Each rotation lasts a few thousand years. Why are there still thousands to millions of spiral galaxies if they spin themselves out after mere thousands of years? Is something making spiral galaxies?

You assume that all observable matter in the universe took it's current form at the same time. Galaxies are born, die, and are reborn again in a cyclical nature.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Second, moon temparature. The surrounding space around the moon is 3 degrees above absolute zero. Shouldn't the moon be frozen solid if it has been around for billions of years? Recent discoveries show that the moon is still hot inside and has occasional very short volcanic eruptions.

The Moon is currntly being scrunched by the earths gravity, and that causes internal friction as the material is jostled around.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Short period comets. The milky way has lots of "short period" comets. They have a life of about 2 to 10 thousand years. If our universe is billions of years old, shouldn't they all have died by now?

Again you assume that our Solar System is exactly the same age as the Universe.

While the matter that constitutes the Solar System is likely that old, this incarnation of the material is was likely created a much shorter time ago as the older stars in the same group died, and exploded causing shock waves that generate the next generations of star formation.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

The shrinking sun, as you well know the sun is composed of mostly hydrogen and helium. It burns this fuel to produce radiation. If it burns fuel it loses mass, correct? It burns this at a rate of about 10 miles per year. Assuming that it mantained the same rate, billions of years ago it would have been twice the size of what it is now.

The Sun is not the same age as the universe.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

Coal, in recent discoveries, trees have been found embedded in coal. If coal takes millions of years to form, wouldn't the termites and various other creatures have eaten the trees out ?

I don't think one broad definition can encompass every imaginabe scenario in which coal might be formed.

Obviously bugs can not, or do not eat every bit of biomatter that the earth produces, or there would be no fertilizer, or coal, or oil, or diamonds, or any of the forms of decayed carbon with which you are familiar.

Quote:

Quote by: TehNinja

The earth's magnetic field is known to 'decay' at a rate of 5% every hundred years. Working backwards, and assuming a maximum plausible initial strength, this puts an age limit on the earth's magnet at only a few thousand years.

I doubt once the magnetic field reverses that it just dies. It probably just has a cyclical nature because of the natural decay in the system.

Remember, it's likely that the magnetic field will eventually die as the fluid core of the earth slowly becomes smaller as the earth cools. Eventually, the earth might even lose it's magnetic field entirely.

Plasma Snake[D] · Sep 9, 2006, 10:31 am

The earth was created just for us. Just like the FACT that we are the center of the universe and that the Earth is flat.

Sep 8, 2006, 07:08 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
TehNinja Molten Ash Posts: 61	New Earth vs Old Earth Do you believe in a new earth or an old earth? I personally believe in a new earth. The trouble with having an open mind is that everything falls out.

Sep 8, 2006, 09:32 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	Ever study geology? Ever been to the Grand Canyon in Arizona and try to comprehend how the hell it was made? The planet is old...billions of years old... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 8, 2006, 09:46 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,280	But to the hardliners PH, God made it :) Delusion- A persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. (i.e. religion) Shared via G reader Blog

Sep 8, 2006, 09:48 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer Digital Witchcraft Posts: 3,020	I always get excited when I see new members like TehNinja or Shield77.. It's just so EASY when you have mountains of evidence on your side. I'm very curious. In your best scientific voice, please explain why you think the earth is new? *Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil..*

Sep 9, 2006, 02:23 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
TehNinja Molten Ash Posts: 61	First, do we agree that the universe and our planet came into existance at the same time? The trouble with having an open mind is that everything falls out.

Sep 9, 2006, 03:04 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
TehNinja Molten Ash Posts: 61	Alright, spiral galaxies, they have been observed with our advances in technology. They undergo huge forces (centrifugal) as they spin. This causes them to come apart after only a few rotations. Each rotation lasts a few thousand years. Why are there still thousands to millions of spiral galaxies if they spin themselves out after mere thousands of years? Is something making spiral galaxies? Second, moon temparature. The surrounding space around the moon is 3 degrees above absolute zero. Shouldn't the moon be frozen solid if it has been around for billions of years? Recent discoveries show that the moon is still hot inside and has occasional very short volcanic eruptions. Short period comets. The milky way has lots of "short period" comets. They have a life of about 2 to 10 thousand years. If our universe is billions of years old, shouldn't they all have died by now? The shrinking sun, as you well know the sun is composed of mostly hydrogen and helium. It burns this fuel to produce radiation. If it burns fuel it loses mass, correct? It burns this at a rate of about 10 miles per year. Assuming that it mantained the same rate, billions of years ago it would have been twice the size of what it is now. Coal, in recent discoveries, trees have been found embedded in coal. If coal takes millions of years to form, wouldn't the termites and various other creatures have eaten the trees out ? The earth's magnetic field is known to 'decay' at a rate of 5% every hundred years. Working backwards, and assuming a maximum plausible initial strength, this puts an age limit on the earth's magnet at only a few thousand years. The trouble with having an open mind is that everything falls out.

Sep 9, 2006, 03:10 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	TNinja, you need to source your allegations... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 9, 2006, 07:36 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,491	OK so you have found a source of Young Earth fantasy. Share it with us. These claims are ludicrous. Much of this foolishness has been debunked over and over. Check out : Is the Earth Young? Specific Creationist Arguments Young-Earth Arguments: A Second Look The Age of the Earth How Old is the Earth - A Response to “Scientific” Creationism Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Sep 9, 2006, 10:31 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Plasma Snake[D] Cause for Concern Location: Planet Earth Posts: 664	The earth was created just for us. Just like the FACT that we are the center of the universe and that the Earth is flat. Isa14:21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers. Deu24:16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children,neither shall the kids be put to death for the fathers.