Does alt energy=more jobs?

[Catch 22]

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18451

I just came upon this story today and I was wondering what you guys think about it. Does alternative energy promise hundreds of thousands of new jobs or is this just murky accounting?

[ConservativeX]

Either way, alternative energy is the future and some jobs will be lost (as when we switched from coal to electricity) but other jobs will be created.

Alternative energy needs our support.

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Catch 22, Does alternative energy promise hundreds of thousands of new jobs or is this just murky accounting?

I have a tendency to believe the libertarian thinkers at the Cato Institute, who find government investments in alternative energy useless. Moreover, subsidies to conventional energy sources are worse than useless, they actually drive our economy in the wrong direction. A new energy regime is emerging. To subsidize the current paradigm is like trying to keep the dinosaurs alive. The days of Peak Oil are upon us, folks. Enjoy your gas guzzling Excursions, Tahoes, Navigators and Hummers. As gas prices rise, mileage becomes more precious.

Anybody aware of Europe's efforts in the non-fossil sector? New jobs or just a shifting of resources?

[Impenitent]

alt energy?

ctrl alt del sure...

on/off switch but no energy key...

[Lava]

Depends on the cost of the new energy. If its same price, same number of jobs. If it costs more, it'll use more jobs up. Just think where the money goes and its simple.

Regards, Lava!

[RightThinker]

Originally posted by ConservativeX, Either way, alternative energy is the future and some jobs will be lost (as when we switched from coal to electricity) but other jobs will be created. Alternative energy needs our support.

Exactly. Jobs will be lost. Im sure it was just as bad for carriage makers when the automobile became popular.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Lava, Depends on the cost of the new energy. If its same price, same number of jobs. If it costs more, it'll use more jobs up. Just think where the money goes and its simple. Regards, Lava!

It depends more on the KIND of energy than the cost. For example, if you had a few million electric cars that you can realistically charge at home, the number of gas stations, and therefore gas stations attendants would go down dramatically. Of course there would be recharge stations on major roads but nothing like the numbers of gas stations. If you went to hydrogen refilling stations, there would be a lot more stations, but since hydrogen IS hydrogen and a fuel cell doesn't want or need additives and such, there would be no competition and again, fewer (but not 0) refueling stations. Conversely, if any popular alternative should require a lot of refills, then the jobs would be there albeit fewer of them.

On the production side, hydrogen must be produced from someother substance, such as seawater, so there will be production plants and people to gather the raw materials. But something like solar or wind generated electricity, once the panels or windmills are erected and the wires laid, your only need would be people to maintain them. No wells, trucks, ships, pipelines or storage facilities. Big loss of jobs there.

[castille]

Well obviously miners need to get themselves a new job when they stop using coal.

Jobs are always lost with new inventions. What happened to the old days of one-letter messengers?

[giuliano]

the idea of technology is to reduce the no. of jobs, not increase it. this is what makes life easier, and us wealthier, than in 1900.

[LogicaLunatic]

Originally posted by giuliano, the idea of technology is to reduce the no. of jobs, not increase it. this is what makes life easier, and us wealthier, than in 1900.

Yeah, I know that I'm FAR better off financially when i don't have a job.

[Sonart]

I just came upon this story today and I was wondering what you guys think about it.

Not only do I agree with it, I've been saying it for years. What happened when the industrial revolution overtook our agricultural economy? What happened to all those horse traders and trainers, blacksmiths, livery owners, tack and buggywhip makers and such when the automobile replaced the horse? What's happening now with the information economy replacing the assembly line worker in America?

When we decided to go to the moon in ten years, we could barely get a small rocket off the launch pad without it exploding. We INVENTED our way to the moon. When exactly did conservatives lose faith in American know-how, Yankee ingenuity and our ability to overcome challenges?

[giuliano]

Originally posted by LogicaLunatic,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LogicaLunatic,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-giuliano, the idea of technology is to reduce the no. of jobs, not increase it. this is what makes life easier, and us wealthier, than in 1900.

Yeah, I know that I'm FAR better off financially when i don't have a job.[/b][/quote]

who said anything about not having a job?

now that we don't have to work in coal mines and die of particulate poisoning by the age of 35, we can instead open juice bars, restaurants, holiday resorts, etc.

oh how i yearn to go back to the days of digging trenches and picking cotton. damn you technology!!

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by Sonart, Not only do I agree with it, I've been saying it for years. What happened when the industrial revolution overtook our agricultural economy? What happened to all those horse traders and trainers, blacksmiths, livery owners, tack and buggywhip makers and such when the automobile replaced the horse? What's happening now with the information economy replacing the assembly line worker in America?

It was more a change of jobs, not total elimination. Horse traders=car salesmen, blacksmiths=auto mechanics, tack and buggywhip makers=people who sell all that custom shit we plaster all over our cars.

[Compugasm]

Originally posted by Scribbler1, On the production side, hydrogen must be produced.

These are questions for anyone to answer, not Scibb specifically, but I wonder:

* How many fossil fuels it will take to produce the alternatives?
* Do we have enough power now for "Electric filling stations"? Not in California we don't.
* Electricity must be produced on demand and can't be adequately stored.
* If we double electric output, will transmission lines be able to hold all that juice? Lots of power lines are they to be dug up or torn down?
* Do we need to secure and overhaul the entire electric grid? If even cars run solely on electricity, power outages are disaterous.
* Will we have to build nuclear plants? Environmentalists won't like that.

At first I thought PatrickHenry and the LP's are insane for not subsidizing this... But I see why this might sound great in a speech, but kinda silly.

We already have fuel cells available, anyone one of us got one? Sounds easier to "retro-fit" your home to work off the grid, than it does to retro fit the entire grid and it's delivery/production capability.

[giuliano]

the proposal is actually to fill cars with hydrogen, which then use it as fuel to produce electrical energy.

the energy won't be supplied across an electrical grid.

how the hydrogen is produced is the big question. producing it out of electricity would not be a solution, i don't think.

[Compugasm]

What's happening now with the information economy replacing the assembly line worker in America?

People freak out about that because the job shift isn't equal for educated people. A little hyperbole here, but if your a doctor, and they don't need any more doctors, you pick strawberries? I find myself in this position. My income went from 45k/yr to 12k/yr. That's worse for the economy overall than shifting from buggywhip maker to assembly line worker.

[Sonart]

who sell all that custom shit we plaster all over our cars.

Kids went from plastering shit on their Detroit muscle cars to plastering shit on their small imported Rice Rockets. I suppose they'll go on plastering shit on their cherry customized hybrids which the auto makers will be making billions selling.

[Compugasm]

My Segway has a drop kit and Krager rims, sweet!

[PatrickHenry]

One item that could create jobs is the manufacture of devices to transform alt energy into another form, likely electricity(this could be huge). Also controls and accessories. Problem with manufacturing is that industrialists are reluctant to initiate factories in the US nowadays for fear that their competitors will use cheaper overseas labor and undercut prices. Driving the US factory out of business. No doubt that at the right price point the market exists. My electric bill currently runs $150/mo. even with solar waterheat. $1800/ yr. for a two-person household is substantial bucks to work with multiplied by x million households.

[Compugasm]

Originally posted by PatrickHenry, the manufacture of devices to transform alt energy into another form, likely electricity(this could be huge).

Hahaha, what? You lost me on turning electricity into another form of electricity. That's steep electric. Mines $45, and I live in CA.