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May 24, 2004, 06:06 pm

Hey PH. Do you know much about H2 powered cars? Is it true that their perfomance is comparable to a gas powered car? Is the limiting factor simply their range pre tank of fuel?

PatrickHenry · May 25, 2004, 01:49 am

Hydrogen essentially means fuel cell, I think. It would be like a pure electric, with storage in a tank of H2 instead of batteries. Hydrogen is a problem to store, especially on the road. It requires high pressure and low temps, right? I seem to recall something about metal hydrides as storage... Clean exhaust though, H2O :)

Electrics can be blazin' fast. Ever see the contemporary RCs? Wow!

Other problems: H2 production is still fossil fuel based in many apps. Basically stripping the C off the hydrocarbons. CO2, the byproduct, is a greenhouse gas. This problem could be countered by using clean electric like hydro, wind, solar, or... nuke(ducks head)

Catch 22 · May 25, 2004, 06:23 pm

Ph I don't know how clean hydropower actually is, it destroys the river ecosystem pretty nicely.

PatrickHenry · May 26, 2004, 12:01 am

True, and siltation eventually destroys the reservoir. Not to mention displacing the inhabitants of the valleys, who often live in communities that extend back into archaeological time. I'm not a big fan of hydro either as you can see, but it beats global warming when you live on an island!

Catch 22 · May 26, 2004, 04:52 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PatrickHenry,
True, and siltation eventually destroys the reservoir. Not to mention displacing the inhabitants of the valleys, who often live in communities that extend back into archaeological time. I'm not a big fan of hydro either as you can see, but it beats global warming when you live on an island!

hehe that it does, still wind power and “clean” fuels like ethanol or natural gas could easily replace power derived from hydro.

PatrickHenry · May 27, 2004, 02:44 am

Actually there was an experimental power facility here on this island using the thermal differential in deep vs. surface ocean water. Known as Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion=OTEC.
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/otec_hi.html

Also, we have a functional geothermal plant that supplies a significant potion of electric use here.
http://www.punageothermalventure.com/

Other good sources of juice are tidal and wave energy as well as wind, solar and hamster wheels.

Catch 22 · May 28, 2004, 03:31 pm

Yeah geothermal and tidal are promising but unless you live near geothermal hot spots or near deep water it's kinda a moot point. Here on long island LIPA(the energy authority here) is looking to put up a bank of 40 someodd windmills off the southern coast. It's expected to produce something like 130 megawatts of power.

Now if we were smart we could probably supply the entire island's energy needs with large widnfarms and a sliding pay scale for high wattage consumers. Yet that would never happen as all the rich annoyances that live out in their beach homes would cry wolf, we’re not even sure that this initial farm will go up.

PatrickHenry · Jun 29, 2004, 03:17 am

Quote:

Originally posted by dave654,
Hey PH. Do you know much about H2 powered cars? Is it true that their perfomance is comparable to a gas powered car? Is the limiting factor simply their range pre tank of fuel?

dave, here's a recent article on H2 powered autos: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4563676/
They can be awesome:

PatrickHenry · Jul 4, 2004, 02:24 am

However, here is a more typical H2 powered vehicle

A lengthy article: http://netscape.edmunds.com/advice/special...59/article.html
They are also testing this one

Quote:

The Department of Energy, which oversees the program, has set the goal to make a decision by 2015 as to whether fuel cell technology is viable. Even if the decision is to move forward, gasoline-powered vehicles will most likely remain in use for many years. "The gasoline-powered internal combustion engine is not going away anytime soon," said John Sakioka, director of Ford's sustainable mobility technologies and director of the FreedomCAR initiative. "But for the first time in 100 years, there are potential alternatives that offer an opportunity to substantially increase fuel economy and reduce or eliminate emissions without sacrificing any of the features that customers want."

This may really happen...

Jul 6, 2004, 01:27 am

Quote:

saturn builds cars in the states

I knew my L200 was a smart buy...

View Poll Results: would you buy one?
yes	10	55.56%
no	1	5.56%
depends on my situations	7	38.89%
Voters: 18. You may not vote

May 25, 2004, 01:49 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	Hydrogen essentially means fuel cell, I think. It would be like a pure electric, with storage in a tank of H2 instead of batteries. Hydrogen is a problem to store, especially on the road. It requires high pressure and low temps, right? I seem to recall something about metal hydrides as storage... Clean exhaust though, H2O :) Electrics can be blazin' fast. Ever see the contemporary RCs? Wow! Other problems: H2 production is still fossil fuel based in many apps. Basically stripping the C off the hydrocarbons. CO2, the byproduct, is a greenhouse gas. This problem could be countered by using clean electric like hydro, wind, solar, or... nuke(ducks head) "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 25, 2004, 06:23 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
Catch 22 Igneous Magma Posts: 374	Ph I don't know how clean hydropower actually is, it destroys the river ecosystem pretty nicely. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered Martin Luther King Jr.

May 26, 2004, 12:01 am	#24 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	True, and siltation eventually destroys the reservoir. Not to mention displacing the inhabitants of the valleys, who often live in communities that extend back into archaeological time. I'm not a big fan of hydro either as you can see, but it beats global warming when you live on an island! "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 27, 2004, 02:44 am	#26 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,438	Actually there was an experimental power facility here on this island using the thermal differential in deep vs. surface ocean water. Known as Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion=OTEC. http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/otec_hi.html Also, we have a functional geothermal plant that supplies a significant potion of electric use here. http://www.punageothermalventure.com/ Other good sources of juice are tidal and wave energy as well as wind, solar and hamster wheels. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 24, 2004, 06:06 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	Hey PH. Do you know much about H2 powered cars? Is it true that their perfomance is comparable to a gas powered car? Is the limiting factor simply their range pre tank of fuel?

May 28, 2004, 03:31 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
Catch 22 Igneous Magma Posts: 374	Yeah geothermal and tidal are promising but unless you live near geothermal hot spots or near deep water it's kinda a moot point. Here on long island LIPA(the energy authority here) is looking to put up a bank of 40 someodd windmills off the southern coast. It's expected to produce something like 130 megawatts of power. Now if we were smart we could probably supply the entire island's energy needs with large widnfarms and a sliding pay scale for high wattage consumers. Yet that would never happen as all the rich annoyances that live out in their beach homes would cry wolf, we’re not even sure that this initial farm will go up. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered Martin Luther King Jr.