There is no God

[dthmstr254]

The poor, poor, whining Christians, the overwhelming majority who feel perfectly comfortable trying to shove their beliefs down the throats of others, claiming that they are so persecuted by the society that they in fact control.

Damned delusional, if you ask me.

hate to tell you this, but the majority of the world are NOT true Christians. every major religion has its group of people that throw the title of follower on themselves, even though they don't truly follow that religion. if we were the overwhelming majority, you think that this majority would be letting you kick our beliefs out of school? heck no. we would have voted evolution out of the schools and put our beliefs. see, a person isn't what he claims to be, he is what he acts like. going by actions of the majority, the majority are non-Christians.

[RickSp]

Whine away little one. I am sure someone will play the violin for you. It might be worthwhile for you to learn about about American traditions of the freedom of and from religion. Then again, I doubt your Bible school cult would allow that.

And your comments on Buddhism are complete garbage, to be polite. Then again this is not the the first time that you have held forth on topics about which you understand absolutely nothing.

[Alvaro]

I have known Buddhists and studied a great deal about Buddhism. Obviously you have done neither.

I'd be pleased if you share your knowledge.

[Jack]

I refrain only because that's not the purpose of this forum. If you'd like to know where I started 30 some years ago, you might want to read almost anything by Alan Watts and the Tao Te Ching . I'm a Taoist, but not a Buddhist.

[Lullaby Chainer]

hate to tell you this, but the majority of the world are NOT true Christians. every major religion has its group of people that throw the title of follower on themselves, even though they don't truly follow that religion. if we were the overwhelming majority, you think that this majority would be letting you kick our beliefs out of school? heck no. we would have voted evolution out of the schools and put our beliefs. see, a person isn't what he claims to be, he is what he acts like. going by actions of the majority, the majority are non-Christians.

Eh.. that's not entirely true. There technically is no majority in a world-wide sense for there is no religion that exceeds 50 percent of the population. Christiananity, however, is the largest religous group in the world with about.. 33 percent. Islam followers behind at about 21 percent.

However, in the US, Christiananity is in fact the majority by 76 percent according to the 2001 ARIS census. By definition, that makes Christiananity the majority in the US.

You also fail to recognize that majority doesn't always rule in the US. The government may not favor one majority over any minority. Hence seperation of church and state. The government may not force the teachings of religous ideas in PUBLIC schools.

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."

[James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785.]


"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

[John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.]


"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

[Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813.]


"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."

[Benjamin Franklin, from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728.]

[Athena]

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

[John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.]

Most interesting statement. And what of the Jewish fixation on being "victims" how helpful is this?

[Athena]

sorry, but you are wrong there. according to brain surgeons, happiness, sadness, and other emotions are caused by the mind, and not the brain. animals do not make choices, they follow set patterns of behaviour. sure, they can be trained, but that is like reprogramming your computer. if you reprogram your computer, does it make choices based on its own original thinking process? no, it makes choices based on a thinking process that you gave to it. I wouldn't say that an animal could love, unless you can prove the existence of Narnia, of course, cause then it would be a whole different story. anyway. you would have to prove that your mind and soul came from brute, mindless matter. also, if the mind is just created by the brain, then we would be able to create a computer with a conscience. if you ever mentioned that to a qualified computer technician, he would laugh in your face, because it is not possible.



they worship before tall idols in the image of Buddha. that is the same as calling him a god.



so, you want a world where everything you do is right, nothing is wrong, nobody has to accept the due consequences of their sin??? I find that equally repulsive. if Buddhism were the way, then to hell with religion, to hell with an afterlife. I don't want to go to heaven with the likes of Bin Laden, or Suddam Hussein. I worship God because He is just. he punishes sin. would you like it if supreme court had eyewitness, scientific, DNA, and corroborating evidence of your mother's murderer, and let him go? what would that make you think of the supreme court? now, apply that to God. He punishes sinners, but He, unlike the supreme court, has a sort of "parole". no, it isn't like purgatory, but that is the best way I can explain this. whe I stood condemned to death, He took my place. that is one difference between Allah and God. and that follows next.



ok, here is one way
Christian teaching: set a table in front of thine enemy
Islamic teaching: if they don't believe what you believe, throw planes at them (9/11/2001). when Christians, Buddhists, atheists, or any other non-believer comes into your land, whip them, and if they don't turn, kill them (many pictures of that happening on Voice of the Martyrs).

Christian teaching: husbands, love your wife.
Islamic teaching: husbands, dominate your wife.

these teachings could NEVER come from the same source.



and you have yet to have convinced me that these beliefs are otherwise.



actually, if the Islamic teacher is there, you won't have much time left on this earth if you lean away, unless you lean towards someone who has a gun.


I don't doubt that I did wrong. I know I sin. I have sinned many, many times. and it is impossible to completely and perfectly follow the teaching of Christianity. why does society hate Christianity? because we are exclusive. there is but one Way to heaven. and anyways, if you think about it, no matter what belief you hold, you are being exclusive. you, who believe in no god's existence, exclude the possibility of an afterlife.

Where did you get the idea that animals don't make choices? It sure was not by paying attention to the research on animals.

My objection to Christians is their insistance that they are the only ones who know the true God and God's truth, when all they know is a book that is a very limited account of truth, and is largely based on myths taken from other cultures. I dislike Christians because so many of their beliefs are false, and they never look into that possibility. For example it was not Jews who originated the idea of one God, but an Egyptian pharaoh.
Niether did Jews originate the story of creation. That was a Sumerian story of many gods changed in the translation to conform to the concept of one God.

I really, really dislike the Christian claim to everything, such as giving pagan celebrations Christian interpretations, absorbing paganism into Christianity and then forgetting this was done and denying it. Democracy does not come from the bible, but from Greek and Roman classics, and it infuriates me when Christains claim the good of the US is because of them, denying the true source of that goodness. I totally dislike the denial of all other concepts of God and all other sources of morality. Christians are perhaps the biggest theifs in history, because they taken so much from others, and then denied they took anything at all. Not even the Christian concept of God is Christian. It is Jewish, and before this Amenhotep IV's declared there is only one God. What do you think Christians can claim as their own, other than Jesus, and a belief in the importance of Jesus, rest on literal interpretion of a translated Sumerian myth of many Gods? Even the Good Shepard is Sumerian.

[dthmstr254]

Where did you get the idea that animals don't make choices? It sure was not by paying attention to the research on animals.

maybe it is because I have animals in my home. I watch them do the same thing over and over again, in the same fashion. you know why it is so hard to train animals to go outside to go crap? because it is programmed in their brain to relieve themselves when needed. it is not the same reasons that babies are hard to potty train. babies DON'T RECOGNIZE THE SENSATIONS. animals do. shoot, my dogs sniff around to find the perfect place to go.

My objection to Christians is their insistance that they are the only ones who know the true God and God's truth, when all they know is a book that is a very limited account of truth, and is largely based on myths taken from other cultures. I dislike Christians because so many of their beliefs are false, and they never look into that possibility. For example it was not Jews who originated the idea of one God, but an Egyptian pharaoh.

wrong. your history is a little skewed. according to Traditions and Encounters: A Global View of History, the Egyptian Pharaoh got his idea from a Jew who made second in command over Egypt. this is another point where the Bible agrees with history, because that Jew just happens to be Joseph. also, if you claim to follow ANY god or religion, you claim exclusivism.

Niether did Jews originate the story of creation. That was a Sumerian story of many gods changed in the translation to conform to the concept of one God.

correction, the Jews didn't have any contact with the Sumerians at the time that this belief cropped up. in fact, the Israelites had no contact with the people from the Fertile Crescent until after they took over Canaan. the Creation account of the Bible was written approximately 100 years prior to that, about when the Israelites were at Mount Sinai.

I really, really dislike the Christian claim to everything, such as giving pagan celebrations Christian interpretations, absorbing paganism into Christianity and then forgetting this was done and denying it. Democracy does not come from the bible, but from Greek and Roman classics, and it infuriates me when Christains claim the good of the US is because of them, denying the true source of that goodness. I totally dislike the denial of all other concepts of God and all other sources of morality. Christians are perhaps the biggest theifs in history, because they taken so much from others, and then denied they took anything at all. Not even the Christian concept of God is Christian. It is Jewish, and before this Amenhotep IV's declared there is only one God. What do you think Christians can claim as their own, other than Jesus, and a belief in the importance of Jesus, rest on literal interpretion of a translated Sumerian myth of many Gods? Even the Good Shepard is Sumerian.

the government TYPE doesn't come from the Bible. even so, it doesn't mean the government's BELIEFS and MORALS weren't based on the Bible. this is well documented on every piece of US currency that passes through your hands. the credo is "In God we trust." documents like the Mayflower Express and one colony's constitution (not today's constitution) have biblical beliefs laced so thoroughly through them that NOONE can remove it. have you ever thought of this: all the religions you CLAIM we stole from were either cropped up AFTER the beliefs you said we stole were documented in the Bible; or they had no geological relations with the Israelites. in order to make your theory stand, you have to not only defraud the dates of the writing of the Bible, but you have to move ENTIRE CIVILIZATIONS.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Not at all correct mister. Please read my posts if you haven't. I have already very elaboratley explained myself.



I can respect that. I think that is more likely than the Christian, or any other religous god, although, I believe the universe is eternal. Mainly because you evenutally get to the put of who created the creator and so forth which a lot of the times brings you to the creator just "is" and always "was". But than, with that logic, couldn't the universe be in the same situation? That it just "is" and just "was"? I think that's possible.

Perhaps you are unaware of what an Atheist, and what an Agnostic is,

I'll clarify:

Atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Atheist

Agnostic: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Agnostic (scroll down a ways)

You are not an Atheist, you are an Agnostic

[dthmstr254]

Eh.. that's not entirely true. There technically is no majority in a world-wide sense for there is no religion that exceeds 50 percent of the population. Christiananity, however, is the largest religous group in the world with about.. 33 percent. Islam followers behind at about 21 percent.

However, in the US, Christiananity is in fact the majority by 76 percent according to the 2001 ARIS census. By definition, that makes Christiananity the majority in the US.

You also fail to recognize that majority doesn't always rule in the US. The government may not favor one majority over any minority. Hence seperation of church and state. The government may not force the teachings of religous ideas in PUBLIC schools.

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."

[James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785.]


"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

[John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.]


"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

[Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813.]


"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."

[Benjamin Franklin, from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728.]

then don't teach macroevolution. macroevolution has NO observable or reproducible experimental data, the MOST CRUCIAL part of science. anyhow, I just said that the majority of people were NON-Christians. and that is true. people just say what they want on those census papers. the actions of the majority are what count. look at this site. most of the people here are non-Christians. this is a site where nearly everybody, regardless of origin, lives in a place that is at least semi-technologically advanced. otherwise, they wouldn't have computers. suffice it to say, the poorest person on this website is richer than most people in third-world countries. and yet, in a site of mostly Americans, we have an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of non-Christians.

[dthmstr254]

Whine away little one. I am sure someone will play the violin for you. It might be worthwhile for you to learn about about American traditions of the freedom of and from religion. Then again, I doubt your Bible school cult would allow that.

And your comments on Buddhism are complete garbage, to be polite. Then again this is not the the first time that you have held forth on topics about which you understand absolutely nothing.

actually, I have learned of the freedoms in America. every kid is made to memorize the bill of rights in 6th grade where I come from. now, I probably couldn't quote it now, but does it matter? you are arguing to the man. this is not about me, it is about the subject of the debate.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Perhaps you are unaware of what an Atheist, and what an Agnostic is,

I'll clarify:

Atheist: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Atheist

Agnostic: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Agnostic (scroll down a ways)

You are not an Atheist, you are an Agnostic

Perhaps you don't understand

Let me quote what your question was.. (I am very very aware of what an Atheist or Agnostic is. And in fact, the definition of both spans further than dictionary.com I am indeed an Atheist. I do deny the existance of God but for you information, an Agnostic is a weak form of Atheist were as the term "Atheist" in the philosophical crowd means one who has no beliefs of god. This is not the same as one who denies god.

Mr. Hardcore Atheist, the one who starts this thread.

You believed in God because society and outside factors around you told you to. When you became "old enough" you learned to make choices for youself. Therefore, you decided to go against God at that point because He was just a figment of what people told you.

Am I correct to assume these facts???

Once again, that's not entirely true.By "He" I assume you mean a particular god. I researched all the gods I could before I realized that it made no sense and chose not to believe.

Firstly, I don't go against God. I don't believe he exists. To go against something is to acknowledge its existance, which I don't.

Secondly, when I chose to become an Atheist, I studied logic, reasoning, philosophy, and religion. What people had told me is an experience and is not universal. I prefer not to base my beliefs on experiences that are only true to me. For example, much of what people told me were shameful even for the church and shouldn't be reflected on as real Christian beliefs on which I base my own beliefs on. Once again, read my posts.. I elaboratley explained it.

then don't teach macroevolution. macroevolution has NO observable or reproducible experimental data, the MOST CRUCIAL part of science. anyhow, I just said that the majority of people were NON-Christians. and that is true. people just say what they want on those census papers. the actions of the majority are what count. look at this site. most of the people here are non-Christians. this is a site where nearly everybody, regardless of origin, lives in a place that is at least semi-technologically advanced. otherwise, they wouldn't have computers. suffice it to say, the poorest person on this website is richer than most people in third-world countries. and yet, in a site of mostly Americans, we have an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of non-Christians.

I never said anything about teaching evolution. I only stated that the government ideally, has no right to force PUBLIC schools to teach RELIGOUS beliefs. Also, you are now scoping down the population of Christians to this website yet you were arguing more nation-wide things.

Most interesting statement. And what of the Jewish fixation on being "victims" how helpful is this?

It's a quote made by one of our founding fathers! I provided it to show this nation was not intended to be a Christian nation. Obviously it serves no help to you but it may for others.