"In God they trust"

[Son of Belial]

Because your choice affects the choices of another, and killing him would essentially destroy his chance to make choices. I was talking about personal choices, those that include means and ends dealing with oneself only. If you want to talk about societal choices, then that's a different issue.

When you have an abortion, your choices affect theirs. So?

[RickSp]

West Virgina Constitution Article 3, Section 15a "Voluntary Contemplation, meditation or prayer in schools.

Should I enumerate it further, in regards to School prayer.

You quote a single line, which does not appear in any WV Constitution on I've found on-line (I do note that the state site is down) and do not address the point at hand?

You claimed that the establishment clause doesn't apply to states, without acknowleding that most State Constitutions establishment clauses are far more restrictive than that provided by the Fifth Amendment. Which really doesn't matter as the 14th Amendment "Privileges and Immunities Clause" prevails regardless. It does provide sort of a belt and suspenders protection against folks who would like to enforce their religion on others.

CONSTITUTION
OF THE
STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

ARTICLE III

BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 15.No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any relig-
ious worship, place or ministry whatsoever; nor shall any
man be enforced, restrained, molested or burthened, in his
body or goods, or otherwise suffer, on account of his relig-
ious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to pro-
fess, and by argument, to maintain their opinions in matters
of religion; and the same shall, in no wise, affect, dimin-
ish or enlarge their civil capacities; and the Legislature
shall not prescribe any religious test whatever, or confer
any peculiar privileges or advantages on any sect or deno-
mination, or pass any law requiring or authorizing any re-
ligious society, or the people of any district within this
State, to levy on themselves, or others, any tax for the
erection or repair of any house for public worship, or for
the support of any church or ministry, but it shall be left
free for every person to select his religious instructor,
and to make for his support, such private contract as he
shall please.

[shield772]

I have a written copy from our Secretary of State's Office.

Public schools shal provide a designated brief time at the beginning of each school day for any student desiring to exercise their right to personal and private contemplation, meditation or prayer. No student of a public school may be denied the right to personal and private contemplation, meditation or prayer not shall any student be required or encouraged to engage in any given contemplation, meditation or prayer as a part of the school curriculum.

[Sonart]

Very interesting... I checked the California Constitution.

SEC. 4. Free exercise and enjoyment of religion without discrimination or preference are guaranteed. This liberty of conscience does not excuse acts that are licentious or inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. The Legislature shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

I too thought the 14th Amendment extended the rights enumerated in the Constitution. I'd actually be interested in finding out more.

.

[shield772]

West Virginia says

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever; nor shall any man be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened, in his body or goods, or otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by arguement, to maintain their opinions in matters of religion; and the same shall, in nowise, affect, diminish or enlarge their civil capacities; and the Legislature shal not prescribe any religious test whatever, or confer any peculiar privelages or advantages on any sect or denomination, or pass any law requiring or authorizing any religious society, or the people of any district within this state, to levy on themselves, or others, any tax for the erectionor repair of any house for public worship, or for the support of any church or ministry, but it shall be left free for every person to select his religious instructor, and to make for his support, such private contracts as he shall please.

[shield772]

http://www.constitution.org/cons/usstcons.htm

All the state's constitutions

[Sonart]

From the Texas State Constitution...

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Constitutional???

Of course it goes on...

"No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship."

...which is, in effect, a long winded variation of the establishment clause.

.

[Jack]

provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Being as it's Texas, perhaps they're referring to Geo. Bush. :O

[RickSp]

So just to recap, the assertion that there is no separation between church and state and that the First Amendment prohibition on the establishment of religion only applies to Congress is wrong because:

• the 14th Amendment applies the Bill of Rights to state legislatures

• and even if this were not true, State Constitutions are in most cases more restrictive in the separation of church and state than the First Amendment itself.

The constant attempt to impose religion in government is contrary to the fundamental principles of this nation.

[gr8ridejester]

Louisiana's State Constitution, under Article I states:

Section 1. All government, of right, originates with the people, is founded on their will alone, and is instituted to protect the rights of the individual and for the good of the whole. Its only legitimate ends are to secure justice for all, preserve peace, protect the rights, and promote the happiness and general welfare of the people. The rights enumerated in this Article are inalienable by the state and shall be preserved inviolate by the state.

Section 2. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, except by due process of law.

Section 3. No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws. No law shall discriminate against a person because of race or religious ideas, beliefs, or affiliations. No law shall arbitrarily, capriciously, or unreasonably discriminate against a person because of birth, age, sex, culture, physical condition, or political ideas or affiliations. Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited, except in the latter case as punishment for crime.

Section 7. No law shall curtail or restrain the freedom of speech or of the press. Every person may speak, write, and publish his sentiments on any subject, but is responsible for abuse of that freedom.

Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Notice how the rights of the individual are protected and mandates strict coherence to provide the right to practice religious freedom as willed by the people. At the same time, it also mandates no laws be enforced to encroach upon the freedoms of other religions as well. Shown in Section 24:

Section 24:The enumeration in this constitution of certain rights shall not deny or disparage other rights retained by the individual citizens of the state.

It is the right of the people to not have to read it or say it or believe it. This is not say the people have to give up their individual rights by not being allowed to pray, or to say the pledge with "One Nation under God.." or include the Ten Commandments on the state judicial wall...etc. This is the most common double-standard seen in America today, and it goes both ways with religious and non-religious people. One side feels their rights are more important than the other. Whoever complains the most gets what they want...in most cases. So, when does one's rights become more important than the other?

Like it or not, this country was founded on "In God We Trust ". It's considered the United States' motto and is used on our currency. It's funny how some are so against this saying on our currency, yet they don't mind spending it.

[Son of Belial]

It's funny how some are so against this saying on our currency, yet they don't mind spending it.

That's one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. I know you meant it as a joke, but that's just retarded. "I'm going to boycott money because it has a phrase I don't like. I'll just sit and be homeless and beg food off of people because I'm boycotting money." That's dumb. I've heard that "joke" before and it gets more annoying every time I hear it.

[Lilith]

Ann Coulter
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

She is a vile bitch. I caught a snippet of her the other night on Faux News, rambling about casualties in war are just "the norm", no big deal. Her insufferable arrogance and hatchet face witch looks made my stomach lurch. My only thought was "Please, Dear God, have someone drop her off in the middle of the warfare and let her become a casualty of this war. The world will be a much better place." Wrong of me, I know, not very Jesus like, but I'm trying to improve. But until then, I'm digging an underground bunker up here in the backwoods, stocking up on guns and ammo. And will take much pleasure in pegging Fundies from the treetops! Ha, ha, ha! Just j/k...but a fuckedup world we're living in, to be sure. Very scary.