What will it take to prove religion?

[dthmstr254]

Uh, well you still haven't refuted my arguments yet, but that doesn't surprise me. Anyways, what's so merciful about a God (omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) coming down from such a sweet place to live, then dying again, and going back up there? What was the point of that?!? So he claimed to die for our sins? Who cares? We still sin. What he did affected nothing besides the people who fell for his wisdom. He just died and went back up to a place that for the next 2000 years will remain a mystery to everyone else. Why? Because it's fake and not real. He lived, he was wise, he died.

Sin, since the first sin in the garden, has been the great dillemma for mankind. for millenia he has tried to figure out a way to work his way to heaven, as evidenced by the tower of Babel. for years the only way a person to cover his sins was through the killing of a spotless lamb. for millenia the people of israel and their descendants would sacrifice a lambe per person per year to cover their sins.
then, in the days of the romans, God came down in the form of man and lived a sinless life, then died for my sins. if you ended the story there the story would be a rather sad and unconvincing story. but it doesnt end there, oh no it does not. he rose again on the third day as prophecied those many years ago in the old testament. he left this world with the order to spread the message of his love to the four corners of the earth.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

The Amen refers to another of God's names, eg Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, etc.

The Egyptians produced Amen before the Old Testament. So maybe they stole it?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Sin, since the first sin in the garden, has been the great dillemma for mankind. for millenia he has tried to figure out a way to work his way to heaven, as evidenced by the tower of Babel. for years the only way a person to cover his sins was through the killing of a spotless lamb. for millenia the people of israel and their descendants would sacrifice a lambe per person per year to cover their sins.
then, in the days of the romans, God came down in the form of man and lived a sinless life, then died for my sins. if you ended the story there the story would be a rather sad and unconvincing story. but it doesnt end there, oh no it does not. he rose again on the third day as prophecied those many years ago in the old testament. he left this world with the order to spread the message of his love to the four corners of the earth.

Why would God make it necessary to kill an innocent creature to cover someone else's sin? What a mean person. God knew sin would exist in people, since he is omniscient, so he knew that we would sin, and never stop sinning. Killing Jesus was not necessary then. Why would it be necessary anyways. He took the place of one innocent lamb? What was the difference in his death and a lamb's death? Yeah, the four corners of this flat Earth.

[dthmstr254]

The Egyptians produced Amen before the Old Testament. So maybe they stole it?

Amenhotep borrowed the term from Joseph, you know the story of how he was thrown into a pit, sold into slavery, then sold again to a man named Potifar, elevated to potifars number one man, then accused of sexual abuse and thrown into prison. he interpreted the dreams of two fellow prisoners correctly, which resulted in his being freed and placed at the second most powerful position after he interpreted Pharaoh's dream. the kings' list that was found listed him before Amenhotep. he and Amenhotep had lived at least in the same country, but if you remember his term as Pharaoh was short lived, after which he had been kicked out by the next Pharaoh who was the original enslaver of the Israelites. i dont know about you, but i would not want to borrow names of a god from a nation that had oppressed me.

[dthmstr254]

Why would God make it necessary to kill an innocent creature to cover someone else's sin? What a mean person. God knew sin would exist in people, since he is omniscient, so he knew that we would sin, and never stop sinning. Killing Jesus was not necessary then. Why would it be necessary anyways. He took the place of one innocent lamb? What was the difference in his death and a lamb's death? Yeah, the four corners of this flat Earth.

he took the place of all the sin sacrifices. he knew we would sin, personally if i were him i would have zapped eve the moment she sinned, and started over again. instead He gave us a way out of our dilemma. and lambs are innocent, that is why he used them, because they symbolized the Lamb of God "that taketh away the sin of the World." Jesus was not just another lamb, he was the Lamb of God, the only one perfect and holy to take our place and become our advocate to the throne of God, mean? isnt it us who slaughter hundreds if not thousands of innocent animals for food? he only required for the killing of one lamb a year until His Son was sacrificed as the perfect sin offering. I will leave you to your thoughts of such a mean God and one more... being jealous is only a sin when there is someone/something more powerful than you. since there is none more powerful than Him, God is not sinning to be jealous.

[Athena]

oh my, my my. looks more like you have done the twisting here. the Sumerians were not around to tell Moses that story! he was at the River Jordan, come from Egypt, he was buried in Israel, north of where Jericho used to be. how could the ancient Sumerians even know of Moses? and why would they tell him? and the Bible refers to Moses as the author many times. i will have Dr Kemp give me these verses tomorrow so i will not falter in my knowledge, him being much more versed in the Bible than i am. and it would read as if an objective writer was writing it if moses had written it. the Bible refers to itself as, roughly translated, "God-Breathed" in several places. here is a list of the several names of God in their original Hebrew:
GOD'S NAMES:
Jehovah, has been transliterated from the Masoretic Hebrew text from the consonants JHVH or JHWH, merged with the vowels of a separate word, Adonai [Lord], since the name YHWH was so sacred as to be unspeakable.

Jehovah or Yahweh - His majesty. "I am the LORD, that is My Name; I will not give to another, or My Praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:8)
Jehovah Tsidkenu or Yahweh Tsidkenu - our righteousness. "In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the Name by which He will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness." (Jeremiah 23:6)
Jehovah Mekaddsh or Yahweh Mekaddsh - He sanctifies. "Keep My decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy." (Leviticus 20:8)
Jehovah Shalom or Yahweh Shalom - He is peace. "So Gideon built an altar to the LORD there and called it The LORD is Peace." (Judges 6:24)
Jehovah Shammah or Yahweh Shammah - He is there. "And the name of the city from that time on will be: The LORD is There." (Ezekiel 48:35)
Jehovah Rophe or Yahweh Rophe - He heals. "If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in His eyes, if you pay attention to His commands and keep all His decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you." (Exodus 15:26)
Jehovah Jireh or Yahweh Jireh - He provides. "Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. So Abraham called that place The LORD will Provide. And to this day it is said, 'On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided." (Genesis 22:13-14)
"And my God will meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:19)
Jehovah Nissi or Yahweh Nissi - my banner. "Moses built an altar and called it The LORD is my Banner." (Exodus 17:15)
Jehovah Rhoi or Yahweh Rhoi - my shepherd. "The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want." (Psalms 23:1)
El Is Generic For God; Adding A Predicate, We Get God Almighty's Name.
(El is combined with other word portions to make Israel, Daniel, Joel, others)

El Shaddai - the Almighty. "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty…" (Exodus 6:3)
"I am God Almighty, walk before me and be blameless." (Genesis 17:1)
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth [inserted, the whole universe] is full of His glory." (Isaiah 6:3)
El Elyon - the Most High God, the Exalted One. "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." (Genesis 14:19-20)
El Olam - God of eternity, God the everlasting One. "Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God." (Genesis 21:33)
"Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal." Isaiah 26:4)
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (Psalms 90:2)
El Berith - God of the covenant. "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." (Genesis 12:2-3)
"I will confirm my covenant between Me and you and will greatly increase your numbers." (Genesis 17:2)
El Roi - God who sees. "You are the God who sees me." (Genesis 16:13)
El Hoseem - God who creates. "I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself." (Isaiah 44:24)

Moses was not there during the time of Adam and Eve nor during the flood. These are Sumerian stories translated by Hebrews in Ur. No twisting. However, if you want to give another explanation of how Moses got these stories please do. Please, no more bible quotes unless they directly relate to the question. There are several bible sites on line and I have a bible. The problem I have with religious people is they don't know of the world outside the very narrow religious explanation of it. They do not know their God is largely Egyptian and Sumerian, because they do look outside their one little book. Furthermore, most interpretations of the bible are influenced by Aristrotle and Plato, but they don't know philosophy either and can't discuss that which they do not know. They just quote the bible, quote the bible, quote the bible. Enough already, get beyond the bible.

[Logjam]

So what's wrong with quoting the Bible? Let religous folks be bibical if they want to. Let Muslims be Muslims, let Jews be Jews and let Christians be Christians. It makes no difference to you. It's their lives and it's none of your business what other people think or believe.

You're sounding a little Liberal here, oh goddess of the mother city of democracy. I suggest you adopt a more Conservative tone. Conservatives understand that the state cannot influence anyones religious beliefs nor can they regulate the practice of religions. Nor can you or I.

If you don't like someones religious beliefs you are free to ignor them. Anything else is a crime.

Stuck Logs

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Amenhotep borrowed the term from Joseph, you know the story of how he was thrown into a pit, sold into slavery, then sold again to a man named Potifar, elevated to potifars number one man, then accused of sexual abuse and thrown into prison. he interpreted the dreams of two fellow prisoners correctly, which resulted in his being freed and placed at the second most powerful position after he interpreted Pharaoh's dream. the kings' list that was found listed him before Amenhotep. he and Amenhotep had lived at least in the same country, but if you remember his term as Pharaoh was short lived, after which he had been kicked out by the next Pharaoh who was the original enslaver of the Israelites. i dont know about you, but i would not want to borrow names of a god from a nation that had oppressed me.

I don't care about the unrealistic stories, I care about the evidence that Amenhotep either took Amen from Joseph or Joseph took it from him. After all, Joseph and him seemed to share a lot of power at the top of the list. They might of even become friends.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

So what's wrong with quoting the Bible? Let religous folks be bibical if they want to. Let Muslims be Muslims, let Jews be Jews and let Christians be Christians. It makes no difference to you. It's their lives and it's none of your business what other people think or believe.

You're sounding a little Liberal here, oh goddess of the mother city of democracy. I suggest you adopt a more Conservative tone. Conservatives understand that the state cannot influence anyones religious beliefs nor can they regulate the practice of religions. Nor can you or I.

If you don't like someones religious beliefs you are free to ignor them. Anything else is a crime.

Stuck Logs

When the beliefs of some affect others, it becomes our business, that is why debate forums like these are created. Because people want to share beliefs, and we debate what beliefs should be shared. It's their lives and if they want to believe something that will affect anyone else, even the same believers, you better damn well know that it's my business.

Do liberals think the state should influence religious beliefs or regulate religious practices? I doubt it, but then again I'm neither a declared liberal or conservative.

And what if my religious beliefs were to kill all other religious believers? Or maybe to eliminate all schools that preach other religions? Is it a crime to stop them?

[dthmstr254]

Moses was not there during the time of Adam and Eve nor during the flood. These are Sumerian stories translated by Hebrews in Ur. No twisting. However, if you want to give another explanation of how Moses got these stories please do. Please, no more bible quotes unless they directly relate to the question. There are several bible sites on line and I have a bible. The problem I have with religious people is they don't know of the world outside the very narrow religious explanation of it. They do not know their God is largely Egyptian and Sumerian, because they do look outside their one little book. Furthermore, most interpretations of the bible are influenced by Aristrotle and Plato, but they don't know philosophy either and can't discuss that which they do not know. They just quote the bible, quote the bible, quote the bible. Enough already, get beyond the bible.

i already gave my answer to that, referring to the Bible as a list of compiled stories that are myths is wrong. i refer to the Bible always as the inspired ("God-breathed") Word of God. Plato and Aristotle never contacted, and there was not any agreement between the Hebrews and the Greeks until the time of the Roman empire, when they were forced to live together, and you can still see the amount of prejudice there was between the Jews of that time and any other race or people. ever heard of the Samaritans? they were the half breeds between Jews and Greeks. they were hated as well, so that discludes the chance of them compiling the Bible at that time. the Bible was written over the period of 2000+ years, in three different languages, and it has a unity that few books have managed to acheive. i could run a synopsis of the books of the Bible if you want, but it will be contained in another thread for the sake of keeping on topic. that is only if you want it. have i quoted the Bible yet in this response, i know i did quite a lot of quoting in my last post, so i might just include my verse of the day at the end of this post. so here it is:
matthew 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

[dthmstr254]

I don't care about the unrealistic stories, I care about the evidence that Amenhotep either took Amen from Joseph or Joseph took it from him. After all, Joseph and him seemed to share a lot of power at the top of the list. They might of even become friends.

think about that. the egyptians hated shepherds, and the Pharaoh was the only exception

[dthmstr254]

So what's wrong with quoting the Bible? Let religous folks be bibical if they want to. Let Muslims be Muslims, let Jews be Jews and let Christians be Christians. It makes no difference to you. It's their lives and it's none of your business what other people think or believe.

You're sounding a little Liberal here, oh goddess of the mother city of democracy. I suggest you adopt a more Conservative tone. Conservatives understand that the state cannot influence anyones religious beliefs nor can they regulate the practice of religions. Nor can you or I.

If you don't like someones religious beliefs you are free to ignor them. Anything else is a crime.

Stuck Logs

no just let her rant. i dont mind