Evidence of God

[Sonart]

The Bible's the true word of God because the Bible says so.

Yeah, sure, I'll accept that. :rolleyes:

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[Savant]

Why can't God just come around and say "hi, I exist"? Because that would not convince many atheists. They would say it's just some trick. Besides, maybe God does not care whether we believe. If I created a fish tank, I might not care whether the fish believe in me. I just want to watch the fish.

Atheists aren't senslessly skeptical for the sake of rebelion, as many religious folks contend. Atheists are just being honest about whet they believe to be true. Many Christians say they believe there is a god, and that it is good and all powerful... yet they still wear their seatbelts when they drive and arent satisfied to let god handle the "evildoers" of the world.

If ever a god decided to try for my faith, it would would take very little. Just a moment of it's time (if it is subject ot the rules of time of course). As a matter of fact, if a diety happens to read this and is frustrated by the lack of faith nowadays, might I suggest doing a miracle for us now that we are capable of investigating it, observing it and recording it properly.

All those fantastic acts you used to do for our ancestors were remarkable, but those people were morons...

[Prometheus]

Only mormons claim that the LDS Church is the fastest growing religion in the world. According to numbers however, paganism is growing at a faster percentage while the Seventh-day Adventist Church has added some 900,000 members each year since 2000. In the recruitment department, the LDS church sent 60,000 missionaries out into the field last year and brought back 306,000 converts (almost a third of the Adventist Church). That means that each missionary averaged....five converts in an entire year. That doesn't exactly sound like a thriving religion. You have some 12 million members, while only four million are active. You're growth is actually dropping, you were at five percent in the early 90's while you are now at three. These numbers are according to LDS-published statisitics and the Salt Lake Tribune. Now, I don't want to dive too deep into this thread, because I live (as Prometheus may remember) in Southern Utah right in the middle of one of the last core LDS areas in the state. I am rather opinionated due to the pure contempt the LDS folk show us non mormons.

Obviously you have better statistics then I do. I was just going off of what I have heard said, so I will concede to your statistics, though I would appreciate a source if you have it availible.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

If ever a god decided to try for my faith, it would would take very little. Just a moment of it's time (if it is subject ot the rules of time of course). As a matter of fact, if a diety happens to read this and is frustrated by the lack of faith nowadays, might I suggest doing a miracle for us now that we are capable of investigating it, observing it and recording it properly.

Let's all stop believing in God. That will force him to come down and do something about it. Everyone with me? : )

[Prometheus]

Ok so I misunderstood where Prometheus was coming from. Grow up and don't make that part of your reason for my sudden "irritation."

So really, you're only argument in this post is about the bible. My irritation with your argument here is that some of the new testament is in fact quoted:

BOM: II Nephi 27:25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men--

BIBLE: Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men...

BOM: II Nephi 27:26 Therefore, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, yea, a marvelous work and a wonder, for the wisdom of their wise and learned shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent shall be hid.

BIBLE: Isaiah 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Don't tell me this is a coincidence. There's more if this doesn't convince you.

True, those passages are found in bothe the NT and the BOM - but it's the same speaker. God/Jesus. Time frame is irrelevant. God/Jesus say the same things to different groups of people. But that aside, Nepi had the writing is Isiah in his posession. In fact, Nephi says that it is his favorite book of scripture. There are places where he intentionally quotes from it directly.

[Prometheus]

The bible is it. Its the only word of god written through men thousands of years ago and it still remains. It doesn't speak of any add-ons or extra books to come so there cannot be any.

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold. Them also I must being. And they shall hear my voice and there shall be one fold and one shepard."

This clearly implies that there were groups christ was ministering to other then the Jews.

"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim's hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah's stick, making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand."

The "sticks" are books of scripture. The stick of Judah is the book of the jews. The stick of joseph (ephraim) is the book of mormon - the book written by the desendants of ephraim (the people in the BOM)

[SoccerfreakAB2]

True, those passages are found in bothe the NT and the BOM - but it's the same speaker. God/Jesus. Time frame is irrelevant. God/Jesus say the same things to different groups of people. But that aside, Nepi had the writing is Isiah in his posession. In fact, Nephi says that it is his favorite book of scripture. There are places where he intentionally quotes from it directly.

It's from the New Testament. How is that possible if it was written before Isaiah was born?

And why would God say the same exact thing to Nephi and to Isaiah? They believed in different religions. I thought God was perfect. Looks like he made a mistake. Or maybe it's just that "God works in mysterious ways"...haha yeah right.

Here's some more:

BOM: Alma 5:52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the axe is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

BIBLE: Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[Prometheus]

It's from the New Testament. How is that possible if it was written before Isaiah was born?

Uh... Isaiah is in the old testament. Boy do you look silly now.

And why would God say the same exact thing to Nephi and to Isaiah? They believed in different religions. I thought God was perfect. Looks like he made a mistake. Or maybe it's just that "God works in mysterious ways"...haha yeah right.

Wrong again. Both isiah and Nephi were Jews. Now you look even more ignorant.

BOM: Alma 5:52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the axe is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

BIBLE: Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Same guy talking - jesus/jehova.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

OK, but were Nephi and Isaiah both there when Jesus was talking? And how did they remember what to write down, exactly what Jesus said?

[popi]

blah blah blah quotes and words from any texts do not make one iota of difference to life. Actions are all that is important love of your fellow man unpleasant or not. Compassion and the need to do the right thing as your concience dictates, in fact some advocate that concience IS God

[SoccerfreakAB2]

blah blah blah quotes and words from any texts do not make one iota of difference to life. Actions are all that is important love of your fellow man unpleasant or not. Compassion and the need to do the right thing as your concience dictates, in fact some advocate that concience IS God

It is. That's why prayer seems to work only on influencing one's self. Sort of like self-motivation.

[Prometheus]

OK, but were Nephi and Isaiah both there when Jesus was talking? And how did they remember what to write down, exactly what Jesus said?

Let's not be stupid. Assuming that there is a god. And assuming that he talked to bothe Nephi and Isiah, there is no reason why he had to talk to both of them at the same time. He said the same things to both of them. How did they remember what he said? That's kind of a petty question. My guess is that when god speaks to you, it makes a pretty good impression.

You think you are pretty smart, but you haven't even picked up on the largest similar part of the BOM. Almost a whole chapte is nearly exactly the same as a Matt 5 - the sermon on the mount is given almost word for word.