Should christians read Harry Potter?

[Aeanos]

Just to truly put this all in perspective, let's all take a deep breath, and truly examine the beliefs of the main group of people who are condemning the various uses of magic in the media.

Let's make this easy on ourselves, shall we?
Christians seek to be like Christ.
Christians tell their children to follow Christ' example.
Christians tell their children all about the actions of Christ so that they may follow His example.
Christians tell their children that everything the Bible says about Christ is factual.

Now, what is it that Christians are saying children should believe as fact? What is it that the Bible states Jesus Christ did? (aside from being born of a virgin, which nobody can hold against Him?)

- Jesus had power over nature. Jesus exhibited power over nature when he turned water into wine, calmed the tempest, and walked on the sea (Jn. 2: 1-11; Mk. 4: 35-41; 6: 47-50).

- Jesus had power over the demon world. Jesus cured a demoniac (demon possessed person, Mk. 1: 23-27). He challenged and cured a violent demoniac and a demon possessed person who was both blind and dumb (Mk. 5: 1-13, Matt. 12: 22, 23).

- Jesus displayed miraculous power over the material realm. Jesus manifested enough food from thin air to feed five thousand people (Mk. 6: 37-44).

- Jesus was triumphant over physical diseases and infirmities. Jesus healed the mother of Peter's wife of a physical abnormality (Mk. 1: 30, 31). Jesus healed "every sickness and every disease among the people" (Matt. 9: 35). He even restored sight to the blind (Matt. 9: 27-31).

- Jesus demonstrated his power over death. Jesus raised Jairus' daughter, the widow's son, and Lazarus from the dead (Mk. 5: 22-24; 35-43; Lk. 7: 11-17; Jn. 11: 34-46).

Now, you may be asking, "So, where's the harm in that? They were miracles, after all..."

- Jesus promised that those who followed Him would be able to perform feats of magic as well. "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils…," Jesus said (Matt. 10: 8). Compared to Jesus' miraculous ability, however, their powers were limited (Jesus had unlimited ability, the apostles had the baptismal measure, Jn. 3: 34, Acts 1: 5-8, ch. 2). I might also inject, that the miracle working ability characteristic of many in the First Century was of limited purpose and duration (Heb. 2: 4, I Cor. 13: 8-10).

And, of course, why did Jesus perform these rather elaborate acts of high magic? To prove that He was the Son of God. Last time I checked, Harry Potter never once claims to be anything more than the son of mortals, and can't even come close to doing even half of the things attributed to Jesus in the Bible. To me, the concept of teaching that a man named Jesus, really did all of that in real life, and that we should all do what he does, would by default, have to be infintely worse than allowing a child to watch or read about lesser feats of magic that are portrayed as being PURELY fictional.

[Aeanos]

Just as a quick response to DTB123's comment about "witchcraft being a tool of the devil", I will actually for the first time ever, quote myself

Further, while on the definition of what a witch is, in ancient Native American usage and the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) a witch is an evil person who secretly uses evil sorcery (black magic) to intentionally harm others. In the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) a witch is a criminal who murders people by administering poisons.

So, although there is a bit of that type of witchcraft in the HP series, we need to remember that there is a distinct difference between "witchcraft" and "magic" in the Bible. And yes, there are many other types of magic user in the Bible who at one period in time or another found themselves on the "gotta be killed" list, which I won't even touch on here. If you would like to really understand exactly who and what was truly an abomination, and for a little bit more on some prime examples of how magic itself was not a wholesale abomination, go to: http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm

As for the psychological importance of fantasy in the lives of children, there is overwhelming evidence that suggests that it it not only important, but absolutely vital to the healthy mental, emotional, and social development of children. For an extremely brief glimpse of this importance, here is an article directly talking about Harry Potter, and the importance of the underlying messages: http://childparenting.about.com/cs/c...arrypotter.htm

I would spend more time digging up links for you, but I figure if you are interested you will find them yourself

[PatrickHenry]

Anyone who thinks they are a christian should check out the gist of the argument. Aeanos, I don't think you qualify. IMO, you are not a christian.

http://www.crossroad.to/text/article...Witchcraft.htm

You others who aren't christian, you opinions are welcome, but irrelevant to the topic, which is addressed to christians, from an atheist, heh.

[Aeanos]

Anyone who thinks they are a christian should check out the gist of the argument. Aeanos, I don't think you qualify. IMO, you are not a christian.

http://www.crossroad.to/text/article...Witchcraft.htm

You others who aren't christian, you opinions are welcome, but irrelevant to the topic, which is addressed to christians, from an atheist, heh.

Should I ask why you believe me to not be a Christian? Although I have a feeling that it is simply due to my being able to look at the argument objectively, and state a neutral opinion, you may wish to read some of my other posts such as The Story of Jesus, et al. before you really decide to make such a comment. However, either way, religion is a personal thing to me, and in the end, is purely subjective to the rationalisations imposed upon it by the observer/believer.

Also, I would just like to point out that the article you are using to back up your part in this debate, points out many of the same things as I myself pointed out in my post.

Just as an example: "Harry's occult skills -- witchcraft, sorcery, casting spells, spiritism, interpreting omens and "calling up the dead" fit into a category God tells us not even to discuss. "For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord...." Eph. 5:10-12, Deut. 18:9-12" What's more, is it goes on to say in the next paragraph: "Where then does their power come from? Natural rather than supernatural forces?

Of course not. Rowling doesn't acknowledge the source, but anyone who has researched witchcraft and talked with contemporary pagans will see the alarming parallels between contemporary occultism and Rowling's seductive message to children."

This is the same exact type of thing which I was adressing in my post. As with any argument, in order for a viewpoint to be valid, the rules must be applied to both sides equally. You cannot use one set of rules for one side, and another for the other, as you will never find an objective opinion, nor be able to make the "equation" of the argument balance out. To say that it is alright for Moses to have a magic walking stick, but not Gandalf, or for Jesus to turn water into wine, but not Seamus while at Hogwarts, is not only contradictory, but would be considered ridiculous in the context of any debate. "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander", as my mother so often put it.

So, yes, the characters in the Harry Potter stories, etc., use magic. Nobody ever says where the power they are using comes from, nor is anyone saying that they should follow the example of these "witches and wizards" in real life. Then again, nobody says that people should dress up as Klingons and Romulans, Jedi and Sith either, yet I see nobody getting upset over any of that.

Does anyone believe that they are of another species simply by donning a costume, and learning how to say "Give me Romulan ale" in Vulcan? No, they do not.

Do children playing Dungeons and Dragons, really enter into pacts with the Devil, and go around hacking people up, as was the huge concept in the 80's? No, they do not.

Did children really think that Beavis and Butthead spoke to them, and said to burn down people's houses in the early 90's? No, they did not.

These are all just scapegoats that people find easy to attach extra meaning onto, while preaching about morality. There are far worse things that people should be worrying about in the media, if it is the minds and souls of the populace that we are trying to save here. For example, I myself remember cutting classes to go watch a soap opera, as sad as it sounds, simply due to the fact that it involved a woman who was possesed by the Devil, and was rtying to seduce and torment a priest. (I think it was Days of our Lives..?) Shows such as this, are filled with sexual abominations, murder, revenge, stealing, lying, cheating, and everything else a fundamentalist should get completely riled up over.....yet, nobody seems to care. Could it be that no fundamentalists will attack shows such as that, simply because either they themself, or someone close to them is an avid fan?

What about the reality shows we have now where people openly spit venom at one another behind their backs, lie, cheat, and attempt to sleep with everyone they can on the cast? Why are those shows not being attacked? Some of the worst shows for our population are the highest rated. In fact, the second highest rating ever went to an airing of Dallas, a daytime soap, wherein everyone personified the absolute worst moral and ethical characteristics imaginable, and went so far as to create a huge fanbase for people who like to watch "cat fights".

Right now, the biggest money makers, are crime dramas, such as CSI (#2), Without a Trace (#3), CSI: Miami (#4), Law and Order (#6), CSI: NY (#10), etc. These shows not only show reinactments of what are often grisly murders, brutal rapes, and the like, but actually go so far as to effectively create checklists for any would be serial killer/rapist. Why is it nobody speaks out against these? Is it because the "good guys always win"? Maybe...but does that make it any better that people of all ages are watching these sorts of programs filled with real life situations of violence, sexual misconduct, and just plain, unadulterated lack of a positive world view? No, it does not.

So, before we all jump on the bandwagon of yet another children's book or movie, why don't we stop watching to see if our next door neighbor is going to be on "COPS" tonight, and start trying to really take out the dangerous behavior from our communal environment? Has it ever occured to anyone in the fundamentalist camp that maybe, just maybe, watching such depictions of grisly violence, sexual promiscuity, etc., might possibly be unhealthy for our society as a whole, and that by getting this type of "lowest common denominator" programming off the air, we may actually see less of this behavior? After all, I have yet to see any children flying around on broomsticks thanks to Harry, but I have seen more than my fair share of shootings, stabbings, and rape victims. After all, it is far easier for a person to learn how to point a gun, than it is to memorize an incantation any day.

[Flip Jackson]

All I have time to say right now is, thank you Aeanos. I don't know if I have ever seen a Christian with such an objective view on Christianity. If I had looked at just one or two of your posts, I would have been convinced that you were against Christiantiy, but you obviously aren't. I have enjoyed reading many of your comments and I think you have said what I have been trying to say.

DTB you surprise me as well. You handled this probably much better than I did. I have one hopefully brief comment. I admit that kids tend to copy what they see. But this applies to many things. It would also include Lord of the Rings, Spiderman, Ninja Turtles, Batman, and any thing else they saw. I don't really feel that any of these things are a danger though. The kids are pretending and using their imagination. The only problem I see for any of these things, is if they don't learn to separate fantasy and reality. The parents should teach kids this. But fantasy is everywhere. I haven't seen any that encourages kids to do anything bad, including, but not restrained, to Harry Potter. Most of the Cartoons and books that kids read have stories meant to entertain while teaching them good values and morals. I wouldn't say that any fantasy thing should take the place of Bible study if you are Christian, but I don't see any harm in this form of recreation.

If anyone is worried about their kids, then the PARENTS need to tell kids what is real and what isn't. The parents need to instill values. They shouldn't encourage kids to live in fantasy worlds by letting them write to Hogwarts trying to get in. That is foolish on the parents part, but shows nothing of evil in the books or devil's work by Rowling.

[Lilith]

Actually, the concept of knowledge being the downfall of humanity is nothing uncommon in other religions as well. The basic concept that knowledge/experience leads to worry, fear, hatred, etc. and is therefor the basis of all things "sinful" is in almost every religion to one degree or another. This is why as Christians, we seek the "faith of a child", and in Eastern Religions, you strive to attain a "childlike mind".

Let's face it, as we grow up, and experience the world, taking on responsibilities, and attempt to sort through our experiences we become inherently unhappy. The only way to become happy again, is to forget all the extra dredge of the day, and simply live in the moment, doing what come naturally. Which, as most would tend to agree, would be little more than lazing around, possibly playing with whatever catches our eye, and eating when we get hungry. This simple state of being, wherein we trust that our needs will be met by our environment, not fearing hunger, predators, or moral obligations is what life is "supposed" to be like, as attested to by Buddhist Nirvana, the Greek Elysian fields, and even the Christian Heaven/ Garden of Eden to name a few.

I've always found it interesting the concept that knowledge or seeking knowledge was original sin. It's almost like the Eden story is trying to say that since Adam and Eve did not have faith in god, that he would simply take care of everything and not to worry, that the punishment for that was living the day to day drudging existence of survival, etc. Or that seeking of that knowledge, whatever it was, and then finding out, leads us more and more from God or Source. We forget where we came from or who we are. Or maybe more on a metaphysical level, the souls come down here already forgotten and that's the mission of the soul, to remember and find it's way back. Interesting indeed.

[Sgt. Rock]

According to this Website, the answer should be, "no".


To be fair, there are other sites that present a much less extreme response to the question, but in general, none of them recommend the series without some reservations.
So I'm just curious as to how many people here that identify themselves as christian have read and enjoyed these books. Is there really a danger, in your mind, of young people taking them too seriously and actually being attracted to witchcraft? Do you even believe in witchcraft?

I am a christian and studying to be a pastor (baptist) I like Harry! I love the Lord of the Rings and don't find anything wrong with either of them. I also really enjoy the Narnia books by C.S. Lewis and don't really see the diffrence in all three.

[Chris the Chees]

I find it funny that Christians attack Harry potter, because they are stories about the occult. Well so is the bible, a collection of papers on the supernatural. The only difference, in that respect, is that Harry Potter is better written.

[Jack]

The tough part though, is trying to convince not only yourself, but everyone around you as well, that things such as knowledge, money, work, and war are not only unimportant, but undesireable. Especially seeing as each of these things are extremely addictive to us on not only a social level but a biological one as well

Aeanos, would you agree that this has been the goal of monastics, particularly Catholic monks, throughout the ages? Most likely, they would object to the reading of Potter as they would object to reading anything non-biblical. In a sense, they endorse limited knowledge...believing biblical knowledge alone is sufficient for a holy life.

[Flip Jackson]

I would like to briefly point out that my religion doesn't feel knowledge is bad. We are actually encouraged to learn as much as we can without sacrificing time that should be spent with families and such. I don't know if knowledge led to the original sin so much as it made Adam and Eve responsible for their actions since they now had knowledge.

[Prometheus]

I find it funny that Christians attack Harry potter, because they are stories about the occult. Well so is the bible, a collection of papers on the supernatural. The only difference, in that respect, is that Harry Potter is better written.

Well harry potter *is* more entertaining than the bible. The bible has fewer sequils too.

[Jack]

Good point, Prometheus. God should have held out for better writers, and maybe even a percentage on the movie rights. It's done well in syndication. A sequel would be an excellent idea. "The Holy Bible, vol.2...the adventure continues..."