I can't trust "fundies", can you?

[Zeebadee]

Absolutely they have a right to believe whatever idiotic nonsense they want and I get to point out how stupid, irrational and completely unjustified, it is.

Nice how that works.

LOL, another fundie.

[Elithium]

Then why do so many Christians disagree with the morality of the bible? Why do "Christian" moral values change as culture changes? Culture is the arbiter of moral values, not the bible, torah, koran, etc.

Ignoring parts of the book doesnt mean that they dont derive their morals from it. They simply use the parts they like. They do this on many subjects. On this forum specifically, there is a thread called "imagine" where a christian tries to justify the morality of slavery using the bible. So dont tell me they dont. (EDIT: speaking of which, there is the specific christian right above my post)

Hell, ask any of them and they will likely justify their moral positions with either a bible quote or some vague claim about jesus or god.

[Cephus]

LOL, another fundie.

No, a dedicated realist. Try again.

[finder]

true, but those actions are born from beliefs, correct?

i dont trust the belief. I dont endorse thought police, but I think the kind of thinking that drives fundamentalism in general should be diagnosable. Its harmful at best and dangerous if the situation is right.

Yeah. You don't support "thought police" unless you don't like the way others think. This is perhaps why people shouldn't trust atheists. Next we'll hear how atheism isn't a motivater.

[Jettin]

Not all schizophrenics kill people. Doesnt mean their views of reality cannot be dangerous to themselves and others.

You're comparing apples and organges. One is a mental disease, the other is a choice to believe in.

[Jettin]

Absolutely they have a right to believe whatever idiotic nonsense they want and I get to point out how stupid, irrational and completely unjustified, it is.

Nice how that works.

Pretty much. It's not a perfect system, but it's there.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Then why do so many Christians disagree with the morality of the bible? Why do "Christian" moral values change as culture changes? Culture is the arbiter of moral values, not the bible, torah, koran, etc.

Then christians need to quit claiming that the source of their morality is the bible or god.

Also, considering that the bible is the big book of multiple choice, I have seen christians justify everything from slavery, rape, abortion, and then turn around and support gay rights, the idea of no hell, and an all benevolent god.

They pick and choose to suit their needs.

The bible may not be the ONLY source, but for many christians, it is a major one, at least when it comes to justifying their morals.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

You're comparing apples and organges. One is a mental disease, the other is a choice to believe in.

nope. Both are diseases, one is simply not generally recognized as such. and there is no choice involved.

Either one is convinced of a proposition, or one is not. choice doesnt enter into it.

One can choose to ACT as if they believe something, or act in such a way to delude themselves until they become convinced, but the actual belief is not subject to choice.

If you disagree, please, elaborate on a belief that you can specifically choose.

[Elithium]

Again, no, it's not. They have their moral values and then dig through the bible to find parts that can be interpreted in a manner that supports their views. They use the bible as a defense mechanism and a cop out from rational thought. They don't use it as a source for their moral values. Christians would abhor the real morals in the bible.

Then christians need to quit claiming that the source of their morality is the bible or god.

Also, considering that the bible is the big book of multiple choice, I have seen christians justify everything from slavery, rape, abortion, and then turn around and support gay rights, the idea of no hell, and an all benevolent god.

They pick and choose to suit their needs.

The bible may not be the ONLY source, but for many christians, it is a major one, at least when it comes to justifying their morals.

[Elithium]

It's so hard to explain that to Christians and Muslims. They ask me why I choose to be an atheist and don't seem to accept that it's not a choice.

nope. Both are diseases, one is simply not generally recognized as such. and there is no choice involved.

Either one is convinced of a proposition, or one is not. choice doesnt enter into it.

One can choose to ACT as if they believe something, or act in such a way to delude themselves until they become convinced, but the actual belief is not subject to choice.

If you disagree, please, elaborate on a belief that you can specifically choose.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Again, no, it's not. They have their moral values and then dig through the bible to find parts that can be interpreted in a manner that supports their views. They use the bible as a defense mechanism and a cop out from rational thought. They don't use it as a source for their moral values. Christians would abhor the real morals in the bible.

Believe me, i agree that christians would abhor the actual morals of the bible. But that doesnt stop them from defending their morals from that very book.

and I am not saying that they derive ALL of their morals from the book, but they do derive some from it.

The moral stance on homosexuality in christianity is derived specifically from the book, for example.

Listen, you have no argument that christians are confused on their morality, and that its a clusterfuck to try to sort through. But people's morals are derived from several different sources, and for many christians, the bible is one of those sources.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

It's so hard to explain that to Christians and Muslims. They ask me why I choose to be an atheist and don't seem to accept that it's not a choice.

they label it choice so that they can feel better about their god torturing us for all of eternity. Hey, we have free will, so its not god's responsiblity that we "chose" to go to hell.