Imagine

[Questatement]

... oh, and yes, the bible was that vague when it came to the life of a slave. It was ok for the master to beat the slave as long as the slave didnt die within one or two days.

Your misrepresentation here may be convenient for your belief system, but is far from true. The reason that an owner would be punished if his punished slaved died immediately and not if the slave lived for a day or two is that the former shows intent to kill or a complete lack of control when angered. The intent of this law was to limit the abuse of power by costing the owner more than just the price of his slave.

And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his property.

As to the bible being vague on the life / treatment of slaves? Far from it. I do not endorse the following link 100% but it comes pretty darn close to demonstrating that the laws around slavery were intended to bring about human flourishing for all parties involved under the circumstances and opportunities of the given culture of that time.

Human slavery

In it, you will find that most slavery was for a limited time frame in order to get the indentured party back to self directed status.

I guess because god finds someone dying over 3 days funny.

Do you really find that these snide comments add to the debate?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Your misrepresentation here may be convenient for your belief system, but is far from true. The reason that an owner would be punished if his punished slaved died immediately and not if the slave lived for a day or two is that the former shows intent to kill or a complete lack of control when angered. The intent of this law was to limit the abuse of power by costing the owner more than just the price of his slave.



As to the bible being vague on the life / treatment of slaves? Far from it. I do not endorse the following link 100% but it comes pretty darn close to demonstrating that the laws around slavery were intended to bring about human flourishing for all parties involved under the circumstances and opportunities of the given culture of that time.

Human slavery

In it, you will find that most slavery was for a limited time frame in order to get the indentured party back to self directed status.



Do you really find that these snide comments add to the debate?

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.


So, dont beat your slave to death immediately. Beat them so they bleed internally and die in 3 days, because he is your property, not a person.

your views are tragic. Your opinions are distorted through a lens of a monster god. I feel sorry for you.

[Questatement]

i love how you equate what is essentially foster care with slavery. there is a huge difference between giving up a child so that they can have a better life and slavery.

In the West at this time, I agree. However, if I could only afford to adopt a child that would work for me for 10 hours a day, I would need laws other than the ones that exist in the West today in order to adopt that child.

Instead of just slamming everything the bible says because it's in the bible, how about coming up with a better plan which would work for a society such as Burkina Faso?

[Questatement]

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

So, dont beat your slave to death immediately. Beat them so they bleed internally and die in 3 days, because he is your property, not a person.

your views are tragic. Your opinions are distorted through a lens of a monster god. I feel sorry for you.

You're just repeating yourself at this point.

What of the laws setting most slaves free on the 7th year?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

You're just repeating yourself at this point.

What of the laws setting most slaves free on the 7th year?

set them free if they are jews, unless you give them a wife and children, then instead of separating a family, he comes to you and you punch a hole in his ear and you keep him as your slave FOREVER.

That, of course, only applied to jewish males. Non jews you could keep forever. As you could with women and children.

again, your view is distorted throught the lens of a monster god.

[Peter]

Here's one of the problems that I think most people have with the concept of slavery. We in the West have prospered beyond the point where any of us would put ourselves up as 'property' in order to better ourselves or in some cases, survive.

So basically you think slavery is OK as long as it's necessary and the slave isn't treated badly. It's OK for a child to be sold as a slave when the alternative is for the child to starve to death.

Yes, at the fringes of civilization I suppose it's better to be a slave than to be dead but this isn't the slavery that we're talking about here. Is it? Are you arguing that because this type of slavery exists and can be justified then all slavery is acceptable?

[Questatement]

So basically you think slavery is OK as long as it's necessary and the slave isn't treated badly. It's OK for a child to be sold as a slave when the alternative is for the child to starve to death.

Yes, at the fringes of civilization I suppose it's better to be a slave than to be dead but this isn't the slavery that we're talking about here. Is it? Are you arguing that because this type of slavery exists and can be justified then all slavery is acceptable?

You know that I do not endorse all slavery as some owners abuse their privilege. I can say the same for employers, parents, politicians, law enforcement, doctors, teachers, etc.

However, my point is that neither can we condemn all slavery until we've lived in a society like today's Burkino Faso and/or ancient Israel and see for ourselves, the pros and cons depending on the laws surrounding the process.

[truthreality]

You know that I do not endorse all slavery as some owners abuse their privilege. I can say the same for employers, parents, politicians, law enforcement, doctors, teachers, etc.

However, my point is that neither can we condemn all slavery until we've lived in a society like today's Burkino Faso and/or ancient Israel and see for ourselves, the pros and cons depending on the laws surrounding the process.

There are no pros to slavery. Slavery is an evil system in which human beings are bought and sold as if they are property and are forced to work. Slavery in the Bible is another perfect example of how the Bible is written by primitive savages who justified their actions with their sick and twisted imaginary God.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. " Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

The above verse reeks of intolerance, prejudice, discrimination and evil. Under no circumstance is it justifiable for any human to be treated as property by any other human. Anyone who is unwilling to condemn the practice of slavery advocated in the Bible is wicked.

[Peter]

You know that I do not endorse all slavery as some owners abuse their privilege. I can say the same for employers, parents, politicians, law enforcement, doctors, teachers, etc.

However, my point is that neither can we condemn all slavery until we've lived in a society like today's Burkino Faso and/or ancient Israel and see for ourselves, the pros and cons depending on the laws surrounding the process.

OK, I'll agree that slavery might have it's time and place inasmuch as it could be preferable to death. This is hardly a glowing endorsement and makes a feeble argument for slavery. I believe we can all agree that slavery of all forms should be eliminated and the fact that the most moral book ever written doesn't state this clearly and loudly is an indictment. Maybe Moses dropped the other tablet that said - Thou shall not own another person as property. A child has better moral intuitions than can be had from the bible. IMO of course.

[Questatement]

Under no circumstance is it justifiable for any human to be treated as property by any other human.

Can you define property and tell us who is completely free and why?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Can you define property and tell us who is completely free and why?

property are possessions. Something a person owns.

And even if the implication of your questions are actually true, there is a massive difference between not having absolute freedom and being a slave.

slave

freedom

You think that owning slaves is somehow justified. You are simply wrong. your inability to see this is irrelevant in this case, because you have already demonstrated that your view is distorted by the lens of your monster god.

[Medensis]

Just read all of this, Questatement you're the perfect example of why the bible is such a dangerous book. I can't imagine if you were in a position of political power.

Do you know what civil rights are?