Miracles

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Actually I don't find the accusation funny anymore. In fact I find it insulting now. Are you trying to say that I am deceiving you into thinking I am not a Christian to strengthen my "argument". I didn't defend the original post to strengthen my point of view as a pseudo Christian but for the sake of argument.

I brought it up because it is a legitimate persuasion technique used by many Christians to validate the validity of their claims. You can't tell me that billions of people are not swayed by this tactic.

I never even implied that you are trying to be deceiving. Im saying that you started the thread and defended it. You arent just a curious bystander. You are an active participant, taking a side. You claim you dont actually support that side. Great. Neither do I. But you are still defending it.

And yes, MANY people are persuaded by that tactic. But many people are also swayed by EVP, and supposed alien sightings. That does not mean its a good reason to be swayed.

You have four Gospels describing 37 miracles in which many of the miracles overlap. You have geologists saying that the environment of the crucifixion of Jesus described in the one of the Gospels concords with their findings of an earthquake. That they also confirm that Jesus was crucified.

I am just saying I find it hard not to take their claims seriously. That's why I am coming to atheists for help. Why are you getting defensive about this instead of feeling honored?

You have story books that describe magic. unless actual evidence can be produced to support those claims of magic, no amount of textual claims are going to do anything but add to the amount of claims. 40 claims or 400, it doesnt matter. The amount of claims doesnt make a thing accurate. And lets see the geological evidence that jesus was crucified. I dont care if the environment was similar or the same. We have said before that some parts of the bible are accurate, and the environment at the time might be one of them. But you are still trying to pin down an earthquake that happened 2000 years ago to a single day. Even if jesus was real and was crucified, the earthquake could have been 4 years later and the geology would have looked similar.

And I am not getting defensive. Im simply pointing out that the christians making the claims of miracles have no evidence to support the miracles. That is the answer. It may not be 'spiritually' satisfying, but I dont really care about that. I care about what is accurate and demonstrable.

I am asking you to refute the accuracy of the claims about the miracles made in the Gospels. I am asking you to refute their authenticity. Is there historical secular information that refutes this?

The Christians always brag about the Bible being 99.6% accurate in terms of it's documentation which is more than any other ancient documentation.

Again, why am I trying to refute the claims made about miracles when those claims have not been evidenced? they havent been proved to be authentic. besides, there is a stunning lack of documentation outside of the bible about these supposed miracles. no eyewitnesses actually wrote anything, and it would be suspect even if they did without actual evidence.

Im just tired of the whole burden shifting thing, like its up to us to prove a fucking negative. They need to actually support their claims with evidence instead of faith professions and supposed personal experience.

[Angry Citizen]

What are the atheist explanations for the miracles in the Bible? Particularly the miracles committed by Jesus. Are all of them fraud?

Either fraudulent, plagiarism, or simple mistakes of perception. Islam also records miracles - one of note is the infamous splitting of the moon by the Prophet. Funny that no other culture recorded the moon randomly splitting.

[The Theist]

Either fraudulent, plagiarism, or simple mistakes of perception. Islam also records miracles - one of note is the infamous splitting of the moon by the Prophet. Funny that no other culture recorded the moon randomly splitting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of them if you listed chronologically would either be misunderstandings on your own behalf or in the realm beyond what apparently your methodolgy could recognize.

Its like saying: "This is stupid because I can't understand it." Methodology is testing. We can't test it. It only makes you look a lot smarter than you are. And it never really answers the question.

[The Theist]

What are the atheist explanations for the miracles in the Bible? Particularly the miracles committed by Jesus. Are all of them fraud?

It is such a crazy stupid line you have to cross to examine this question. Is a miracle committed by Jesus a moldy patch on the foundation of the patio of some crazy individual? The markings in a moldy piece of toast? Or perhaps a scriptural misapplication.

I don't like the term miracle.

Miracle man got busted.

Maybe for the sake of my own peculiarity specifics need be applied. It doesn't do much good, though. They were signs, in a sense, parlor tricks to appease the ancient person into taking a close look at what was going on at that time. There is a great deal more to it than that, and in the context that you give it, it is way to easy for the skeptic to blow it off.

If you were more specific I could comment but for what?

[Jack]

Here's how miracles are done...and debunked.

[truthreality]

Here's how miracles are done...and debunked.

Why are you using magic and parlor tricks from India to disprove the miracle claims of the Bible?

[Jack]

Why are you using magic and parlor tricks from India to disprove the miracle claims of the Bible?

The non-miraculous touted as a miracle. Another possible and reasonable explanation for Biblical miracles.

[hensatri]

What are the atheist explanations for the miracles in the Bible? Particularly the miracles committed by Jesus. Are all of them fraud?

My explaination for the miracles of the Bible is probably the same as your explaination for the miracels of the Quran, the Vedas, or the Guru Granth Sahib.

In other words, they are just religious books from an ancient and less knowledgeable time. Most of it is just legend and myth based around quasi-historic fictionalized versions of anceitn persons and places.

Mythology....no more explaination needed.

[Thanatos]

Walking on water is an impressive feat, but running on the surface of water just takes serious leg muscles. Water is a relatively incompressible fluid. Ever hear of Jesus Christ lizards?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Walking on water is an impressive feat, but running on the surface of water just takes serious leg muscles. Water is a relatively incompressible fluid. Ever hear of Jesus Christ lizards?

That was busted. Just because the shoes are hydrophobic doesnt mean you are going to run on water. You can even see the platform a small bit at 2:19 in the video. He passes the white bit in the water and suddenly falls off. If you look closely, you can also see the platforms on some of the other runs.

In order to accomplish a person running on water, their shoes would have to have a huge contact patch, Or they could run at 30 meters per second.

The video is a stealth ad for the shoes.

In fact, in the links after your video:




However, the jesus lizard is real.

[Thanatos]

I posted that tongue-in-cheek. Some people are gullible enough to believe that kind of thing, and I wanted to see if we got any takers because I am a horrible person. It's also entirely possible that Jesus used the same trick of standing in water that looks deeper than it is, if the incident ever took place at all and was not just purely symbolic.

Faith healers and street magicians are a dime a dozen these days. They may not have any real powers, but they have the power to make people believe in them.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

I posted that tongue-in-cheek. Some people are gullible enough to believe that kind of thing, and I wanted to see if we got any takers because I am a horrible person. It's also entirely possible that Jesus used the same trick of standing in water that looks deeper than it is, if the incident ever took place at all and was not just purely symbolic.

Faith healers and street magicians are a dime a dozen these days. They may not have any real powers, but they have the power to make people believe in them.

Sorry. I have a problem with not seeing tongue in cheek things. I also have a problem distinguishing poes, as well.

but to your point, agreed.

and you arent a horrible person for that, any more than you are for tapping the glass at the zoo. (does that comparison make ME a horrible person?)