Theists who become atheists

[xx_mortekai_xx]

Bond like a mother and child.

If I am presumptuous then you will have to explain how you bonded with that which according to you doesn't exist.

temporality. He believed it existed at the time. he doesnt now. just as I did.

Also, delusion allows one to believe one has a relationship with a being that doesnt exist. Schizophrenics do it all the time.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

So let me get this straight. You believed in god, my god, so you know my mind because my faith is the same as yours was. But if I say no, my faith is different because I did not walk away from it, you know better so I will or should one day? And if I use the same words like "felt" or "called" as you did 25 years ago that settles it you know my faith has no subtance because yours didn't? And I'm presumptuous if I don't agree you know my mind and admit they are the same faith? Amazing!

It doesn't even don on any of you that the substance of my faith is completely different then yours was just because we share the same language. And you think you know I'm delusional because you were delusional with your faith and we share a familiarity with Christian doctrine. Maybe true believers just understand the substance of that doctrine better than you, eh? Oh, that can't be, that's the whole problem you have with it, huh? You can't believe that so YOU MUST Know us better than we know ourselves, what gall! You are the presumptuous ones.

You describe your experiences here, and we felt exactly those experiences. No knowing your mind needed. But when one uses the same language to describe an experience, its not a long shot to think that the experiences were similar, if not the same.

Obviously, we followed different paths. Perhaps if you felt the calling to become a member of the clergy, you might find it necessary to better familiarize yourself with the bible and the nature of the god it describes. And perhaps that calling would also lead you to doubt, even with what you now consider absolutely true belief.

And we assert your faith has no substance due to your god not existing, not on the veracity of your personal experience. Just because you feel something doesnt mean its real. Just because you believe something, doesnt make it true. We dont think you are LYING when you say you have those experiences. We doubt the source. Besides, unless you are unendingly arrogant (which i dont assert here), you must admit that your senses can be fooled, and that your experiences could be something other than what you perceive them to be. and if that is the case, why should we trust your assertion that a god is the source of these experiences?

And recognizing delusion has nothing to do with comparing it with our former delusion. It has to do with the belief in something that, as far as any of you can show, doesnt exist.

We also dont believe schizophrenics when they say that they are from another planet, even if it is absolutely real to them.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

You keep ignoring the fact that at that time I did believe. Is that really so difficult to understand? What you should be asking, but haven't, is how we explain that relationship now that we no longer believe. But then that question doesn't help you undermine our past belief, does it?

your belief wasnt true belief, duh. because if you had true belief, you couldnt turn away from god.

Except, what about free will?

[finder]

Obviously, we followed different paths. Perhaps if you felt the calling to become a member of the clergy, you might find it necessary to better familiarize yourself with the bible and the nature of the god it describes. And perhaps that calling would also lead you to doubt, even with what you now consider absolutely true belief.

How presumptuous.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

How presumptuous.

how, exactly, is ANY of that presumptuous? I said perhaps. It COULD have been different. But its also a popular path for deconversion as well.

so, please, show me where I presumed anything.

[finder]

You keep ignoring the fact that at that time I did believe. Is that really so difficult to understand? What you should be asking, but haven't, is how we explain that relationship now that we no longer believe. But then that question doesn't help you undermine our past belief, does it?

From my op on I have acknowledged your faith as real. Misplaced but real.

Also in my op I alluded to the fact atheists don't tell of their relationship with God and I brought attention to that fact again in #35 and still have not heard a peep. Just because I didn't specifically ask with the verbiage you require doesn't mean you couldn't share. So that's just another strawman Jack.

How could I undermine that which is already shipwrecked?

Believing and bonding are two separate things.

You all admit you were delusional in your beliefs.because you realized god isn't real. How do I know your not delusional now?

[xx_mortekai_xx]

From my op on I have acknowledged your faith as real. Misplaced but real.

Also in my op I alluded to the fact atheists don't tell of their relationship with God and I brought attention to that fact again in #35 and still have not heard a peep. Just because I didn't specifically ask with the verbiage you require doesn't mean you couldn't share. So that's just another strawman Jack.

How could I undermine that which is already shipwrecked?

Believing and bonding are two separate things.

You all admit you were delusional in your beliefs.because you realized god isn't real. How do I know your not delusional now?

How can you POSSIBLY say his faith was misplaced? Because he didnt end up like you? a believer who repeadedly asserts that anyone who turned away from religion couldnt have been a "connected" or "true" or "bonded" christian?

please answer this. We have yet to get an answer other than what equates to No True Scotsman crossed with mind reading.

And please answer my previous post as well.

[truthreality]

From my op on I have acknowledged your faith as real. Misplaced but real.

Also in my op I alluded to the fact atheists don't tell of their relationship with God and I brought attention to that fact again in #35 and still have not heard a peep. Just because I didn't specifically ask with the verbiage you require doesn't mean you couldn't share. So that's just another strawman Jack.

How could I undermine that which is already shipwrecked?

Believing and bonding are two separate things.

You all admit you were delusional in your beliefs.because you realized god isn't real. How do I know your not delusional now?

Why do you care so much whether or not someone else believes. You believe right? That's all that should matter.

[finder]

How can you POSSIBLY say his faith was misplaced?

That's his argument, yours too. You both say you had real faith in a god who didn't exist.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

That's his argument, yours too. You both say you had real faith in a god who didn't exist.

actually, my argument is that ALL faith is misplaced, yours included, since faith is believing without evidence (I know you christians love talking about how you have personal experience and all that stuff, but evidence is demonstrable) and such belief is without basis or merit. But I have never said my faith was misplaced. It was simply wrong, and is not a basis for any kind of truth claim, so i no longer use faith.

besides, the point is that you think god is real, and you are trying to judge whether jack's faith was misplaced or not, which is impossible for you to say. According to your position, his faith was misplaced, but yours isnt. This claim requires mind reading ability, and absolute trust in one's own perception. Since you have neither, i ask again:

How can you possibly claim his faith was misplaced?

[finder]

actually, my argument is that ALL faith is misplaced, yours included, since faith is believing without evidence (I know you christians love talking about how you have personal experience and all that stuff, but evidence is demonstrable) and such belief is without basis or merit. But I have never said my faith was misplaced. It was simply wrong, and is not a basis for any kind of truth claim, so i no longer use faith.

besides, the point is that you think god is real, and you are trying to judge whether jack's faith was misplaced or not, which is impossible for you to say. According to your position, his faith was misplaced, but yours isnt. This claim requires mind reading ability, and absolute trust in one's own perception. Since you have neither, i ask again:

How can you possibly claim his faith was misplaced?

That's his and your argument... And you just reaffirmed that.

[minorwork]

That's his and your argument... And you just reaffirmed that.

Being bonded with God, you must have some experience with Devil repelling, eh?