Theists who become atheists

[Cephus]

You are right and that is why I don't believe in God "just to feel good." It's much better knowing for a fact he exists and sustains. God doesn't cow to the cynical demands of his rebellious creation so he probably won't jump through your hoops to satisfy your cynical nature. But he does provide some evidence. For instance since the beginning of civilization God has had it prophesied that people like you will have your attitude towards him and believers, thinking yourself wise with understanding but in reality understanding very little. Oh, but you used to be a theist so you all ready knew that about yourself!

The problem is, you don't know for a fact that God exists. You have faith. Claims of knowledge require an objective basis. How do you know? What evidence do you have? It requires that we be able to examine and vigorously test whatever you have which you think supports your claim. You immediately fail by claiming God has prophesied anything. Prove it. Where is your evidence that God even exists, much less prophesied anything? At best, you have unknown people in an ancient book of mythology making unjustified and unsupported claims that God did such a thing. Now how do we test those claims?

It doesn't take an ex-theist to know when illogical, irrational claims are being made.

I can't speak for him, but in my case God is "more real" in the sense I see his presence and receive the blessing of his love daily. So that might be what he meant. You being on the outs wouldn't understand what benefits you receive from God, like air and life, preferring that chance provides, thus only in your imagination minimizing the presence of God.

First off, you don't see his presence unless you're certifiably insane, which I suppose is possible. This is yet another case of a theist making claims which cannot be justified objectively. How can you demonstrate that you receive any blessings? Believers in other religions make similar claims, why are your claims any more justified than theirs? These are questions that need to be answered in any critical evaluation of religious claims, yet they are questions that are just ignored by believers.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

God doesn't cow to the cynical demands of his rebellious creation so he probably won't jump through your hoops to satisfy your cynical nature. But he does provide some evidence. For instance since the beginning of civilization God has had it prophesied that people like you will have your attitude towards him and believers, thinking yourself wise with understanding but in reality understanding very little. Oh, but you used to be a theist so you all ready knew that about yourself!

Your god desires worship, then refuses to provide the very things that would get him exactly that by people who would supposedly gain most from his presence in their life.

Oh, and its not supernatural to "predict" that people will mock you for believing in things that cannot be demonstrated. Its common sense.

[finder]

The reason its a no true scotsman fallacy is illustrated near the end of your post, when you said " My contention is you believe that because you never joined or allowed God to become a part of you. If you had, you could no more deny him then you can your family, the house you live in, your employment or any other object of reality that's a part of existence."

You are essentially saying that no true christian can ever turn away from god, and that those who do were never really christian.

Thats precisely no true scotsman.

And I dont know any atheists who claim that religious people believe because they choose to. Most believe due to indoctrination, in my experience. They simply were taught from an early age that god and jesus are real, and that to question those things means infinite torture. (my paraphrasing).

I disagree. Someone who doesn't believe in Christ isn't Christian. There is a difference between being indoctrinated and having a personal desire for the truth, realizing when you have it and entrusting yourself to it.

Besides, you claim all these things about god, and the simple fact is, I dont believe you. How do we know you arent delusional? You ARE speaking about beings who cannot be detected and supposedly leave no evidence of their interactions that can be tested.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Cephus]

That coming from one who inadvertently admitted he must of believed in god to feel good. Either that or you're flat out lying about your once convinced connection with God. Which would be why it took 31 posts before any atheist changed up tried to say "Hey I thought I felt that too"

In retrospect, sure. At the time I believed it, it felt very real, but as I learned more, it came to be a silly delusion, just like yours is. Maybe you'll grow out of this asinine belief one day and recognize how absurd it all is.

Or maybe not, maybe you're doomed to be delusional your entire life.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

I disagree. Someone who doesn't believe in Christ isn't Christian. There is a difference between being indoctrinated and having a personal desire for the truth, realizing when you have it and entrusting yourself to it.



Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

How can you disagree? Thats precisely what no true scotsman is, and thats precisely what you are doing. Also, simply believing in christ isnt enough for most christians. A good deal of them also claim that one must also give ones life to god, and accept jesus as one's savior. Some even include the belief in a triune god. What makes your requisites better or more accurate than those of others?

Also, is it possible that you are delusional? Or is your perception such that it cannot be fooled?

[finder]

In retrospect, sure. At the time I believed it, it felt very real, but as I learned more, it came to be a silly delusion, just like yours is. Maybe you'll grow out of this asinine belief one day and recognize how absurd it all is.

Or maybe not, maybe you're doomed to be delusional your entire life.

If you're trying to say you admit you believed in God because it made you feel good, your delusion was nothing like my reality. But you're entitled to you opinion and if you think I'm delusional, so be it. My faith doesn't require your approval nor does your disapproval have an affect. It is the atheists who seem to be irritated by this topic, not the theists though it's commonly suggested by atheists that your attitudes cause us some kind of insecurity. Go figure.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

If you're trying to say you admit you believed in God because it made you feel good, your delusion was nothing like my reality. But you're entitled to you opinion and if you think I'm delusional, so be it. My faith doesn't require your approval nor does your disapproval have an affect. It is the atheists who seem to be irritated by this topic, not the theists though it's commonly suggested by atheists that your attitudes cause us some kind of insecurity. Go figure.

Please. The entire concept of someone who was sincere in their faith and still was able to reject the concept of your god is something that scares you and your kind so bad that you do EVERYTHING you can to find any justification for why they werent christian, even if it means you must necessarily have supernatural powers.

How can you POSSIBLY tell another person what was or wasnt in their mind? Did your god tell you?

[finder]

How can you disagree? Thats precisely what no true scotsman is, and thats precisely what you are doing. Also, simply believing in christ isnt enough for most christians. A good deal of them also claim that one must also give ones life to god, and accept jesus as one's savior. Some even include the belief in a triune god. What makes your requisites better or more accurate than those of others?

Also, is it possible that you are delusional? Or is your perception such that it cannot be fooled?

I'm saying the Scotsman is no real Scotsman because he's 100% Irish, get it? I didn't list prerequisites for Christianity. I'm talking about vested, confirmed faith and it seems to be driving atheists nuts.

I'm confident my perception isn't fooled in this case. How about you, you delusional?

[finder]

Please. The entire concept of someone who was sincere in their faith and still was able to reject the concept of your god is something that scares you and your kind so bad that you do EVERYTHING you can to find any justification for why they werent christian, even if it means you must necessarily have supernatural powers.

How can you POSSIBLY tell another person what was or wasnt in their mind? Did your god tell you?

LOL, please. After this diatribe you just typed telling me what's in my mind you then finish with that question? The arrogance!

[Cephus]

If you're trying to say you admit you believed in God because it made you feel good, your delusion was nothing like my reality. But you're entitled to you opinion and if you think I'm delusional, so be it. My faith doesn't require your approval nor does your disapproval have an affect. It is the atheists who seem to be irritated by this topic, not the theists though it's commonly suggested by atheists that your attitudes cause us some kind of insecurity. Go figure.

You don't know how to read, do you? I said *IN RETROSPECT*, I recognize what I was actually doing at the time, I simply didn't see it at the time that I believed it. It's the same thing that you're doing right now, even though you're incapable of recognizing it right now. Maybe some day you will.

And no, your faith doesn't require a thing, but this is a debate forum and as such, you are obligated to support your claims with evidence. Since you have no evidence to present, as we both already know, then you should stop making such claims. I know you won't but that just demonstrates the utter futility of your beliefs. That's up to you, of course. It just makes your beliefs look more and more silly.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

I'm saying the Scotsman is no real Scotsman because he's 100% Irish, get it? I didn't list prerequisites for Christianity. I'm talking about vested, confirmed faith and it seems to be driving atheists nuts.

I'm confident my perception isn't fooled in this case. How about you, you delusional?

No, you are talking about your perception of something as vested, confirmed faith. Please, enlighten us with the method you use to examine someone's mind.

And I dont rely on my just my own perception to tell if something is real or not. If a thing exists, its confirmable by others, in the broad categories as well as the narrow.

You perceive something that others claim to perceive, but the descriptions of the thing vary so wildly as to be next to useless in getting an accurate, reliable picture of what that thing is or how it behaves. If those perceptions did agree, there wouldnt be over 30,000 different denominations of christianity alone.

Oh, and the human brain is susceptable to so many different forms of manipulation as to make a single person's perception of an event or an experience suspect when it comes to accuracy or reliability.

So, tell me again how you are confident your perception isnt fooled.

[xx_mortekai_xx]

LOL, please. After this diatribe you just typed telling me what's in my mind you then finish with that question? The arrogance!

im simply going by observation. You seem to be so sure that Cephus was never a christian that you are making wild claims that you cannot possibly support, all based on your OPINION of what a true christian is. I dont have to see your mind to see your concern and unwillingness to accept a simple truth: that not all true christians stay stuck in the mind fog of christianity. some of us use our supposedly god given brains to think about things and reason. What kind of god gives us a brain that can use reason and logic and then demand that we not use it?