Thought Experiment: Taking God out of Morality

[hensatri]

Imagine that tomorrow there was some form of definitive proof brought forth that demonstrated there is no God. The type of proof doesn’t matter, this is a hypothetical, just imagine that some evidence has been adduced that would convince every believer that there is no God.

What do you think would happen? Obviously there would be a period of unrest and maybe some riots on the short term, people can’t take a world-view shattering thing like that in stride, so there are bound to be a few cultural tantrums that would be thrown, but after the initial shock wore off, what, if any, long term ramifications would there be on our morality and our culture?

I am of the opinion that after the initial period of adjustment, life would return pretty much to normal, with people treating each other as they had before. This is because I am of the opinion that God has absolutely nothing to do with our morality, we just like to pretend that he does in order to justify ourselves. The only big difference we would see is that people who use religion to manipulate others (religious warlords, megachurch pastors, ultra conservative politicians) would fall out of power in fairly short order, and certain social conventions that are based entirly in religion (no gay marriage, no birth control) would fall out of favor as well.

Your thoughts? I don’t really wanna debate anyone on this, I just want your honest assessment, based on what you know of people, as to what would happen in this hypothetical?

And a follow-up question: What about you personally? If you are a believer, and it was suddenly proven to you that there is no God, after the initial period of adjusting, what impact would that have on your life? Would you become a better person? A worse person? Stay pretty much the same?

[Jack]

To turn your question around, I can't think of much I do on a daily basis I'd have to change were I suddenly a believer again and thought I was under god's morality. Maybe a few minor things like not swear, but on the whole my life right now is as moral and ethical as any Christian I know. I don't steal, haven't murdered anyone lately, don't covet my neighbor's wife or ass (I don't even know if he has a wife...I'm pretty sure he doesn't own an ass) or any of the other things Christians mention when asked about god's moral code. I don't even have any other gods before him, since I don't have any gods at all currently (except music, see that thread). Yup, I lead a life just as moral and boring as the average Christian.

[The Theist]

Very interesting topic, hensatri,

I think it would make very little difference overall. Most people, I think, don't really care or actually believe in any God, they just sort of go through the motions for the sake of tradition or for social reasons.

I don't think that it would make much difference to our culture or morality because I don't think these things are actually determined by any real deity subscribed to by the masses. Your hypothetical stipulates that believers would be convinced there was no God, so they would probably simply resume normal service as soon as possible, as Basil Fawlty would say. I doubt that there would even be any riots or anything of that ilk.

I am of the opinion that after the initial period of adjustment, life would return pretty much to normal, with people treating each other as they had before. This is because I am of the opinion that God has absolutely nothing to do with our morality, we just like to pretend that he does in order to justify ourselves. The only big difference we would see is that people who use religion to manipulate others (religious warlords, megachurch pastors, ultra conservative politicians) would fall out of power in fairly short order, and certain social conventions that are based entirly in religion (no gay marriage, no birth control) would fall out of favor as well.

I don't agree with this. I think everything would be the same except people wouldn't believe in God. People would still use religion to manipulate others, those you mentioned would continue unabated, gay marriage and Birth Control wouldn't change beyond what they would with belief in God, for exactly the reason you stated. They are social conventions. Religion, after all, is in it's most basic sense, simply a system of beliefs strictly adhered to. Religion doesn't absolutely need a god.

For me personally I find the Bible and to a lesser extent religion interesting so I would keep studying those but in discussions in forums such as these I would make it clear that the God of the Bible didn't exist. Keep in mind, I'm not a Christian, nor have I ever belonged to any organized religion. I never would. And I can be a really bad example of how one should behave as a believer in the Bible. I've never had a man killed to get at his wife like King David, but I can be a bit of a p_ _ _k. I don't think my life would change very much except I would be pissed that I had been fooled and disappointed that God's promise of everlasting life in paradise earth was not going to materialize.

[RedDaze]

No 72 virgins?! Damnit!

Just kidding.

Well, we'd definitely have an uproar in the Vatican City. Those guys would disappear like a stack of cash. And there would be riots. Suicides. Lots of suicides as that idea dawned on people. What would they believe in? What kind of hope would they have left for the future? What would they think when they know there is no savior, no redemption, no justice waiting for them at the end of their life?

Say what you will, but the world is better off with God. Faith can crush you, and it can save your life when you're about to be crushed. Perhaps it is the very idea of God that gives us strength to ourselves. I'd hate to think of a world without that. Where would our ambition go? Everything as we know it would be turned on its head.

[truthreality]

To turn your question around, I can't think of much I do on a daily basis I'd have to change were I suddenly a believer again and thought I was under god's morality. Maybe a few minor things like not swear, but on the whole my life right now is as moral and ethical as any Christian I know. I don't steal, haven't murdered anyone lately, don't covet my neighbor's wife or ass (I don't even know if he has a wife...I'm pretty sure he doesn't own an ass) or any of the other things Christians mention when asked about god's moral code. I don't even have any other gods before him, since I don't have any gods at all currently (except music, see that thread). Yup, I lead a life just as moral and boring as the average Christian.

I really commend you on that. I hope that you realize that leading such a moral life is good for yourself as well. There are many benefits to leading a moral life other then pleasing God. Mind control for example...

[truthreality]

I think religion actually has a tremendous impact morally on many people. By that I mean if religion and God were taken away, I think they would make different choices. I have met many people who try their best not to do evil deeds out of fear of God. I think in a way religion provides some benefit to the world in this sense.

[Dave In Canada]

No 72 virgins?! Damnit!

Just kidding.

Well, we'd definitely have an uproar in the Vatican City. Those guys would disappear like a stack of cash. And there would be riots. Suicides. Lots of suicides as that idea dawned on people. What would they believe in? What kind of hope would they have left for the future? What would they think when they know there is no savior, no redemption, no justice waiting for them at the end of their life?

Say what you will, but the world is better off with God. Faith can crush you, and it can save your life when you're about to be crushed. Perhaps it is the very idea of God that gives us strength to ourselves. I'd hate to think of a world without that. Where would our ambition go? Everything as we know it would be turned on its head.

I believe in the ability of people as inviduals and in groups have the ability to persevere and adapt. People would hopefully turn their focus on the here & now. Focus on restoring the planet instead of continuing to strip it of its resources. I would also hope that humanity would come together and deal with the oppression of others head on instead of token offerings of help.

[RedDaze]

I believe in the ability of people as inviduals and in groups have the ability to persevere and adapt. People would hopefully turn their focus on the here & now. Focus on restoring the planet instead of continuing to strip it of its resources. I would also hope that humanity would come together and deal with the oppression of others head on instead of token offerings of help.

Noble thinking. I share your sentiments and hope for the same, but it pays to be realistic as well. Our population would definitely begin to dip a little over the year... You know, marriage and death ceremonies would be different too. So would the Pledge of Allegiance, and the swearing in of senators.

[minorwork]

And a follow-up question: What about you personally? If you are a believer, and it was suddenly proven to you that there is no God, after the initial period of adjusting, what impact would that have on your life? Would you become a better person? A worse person? Stay pretty much the same?

Ignostic that I am, there is difficulty with what you mean by God. Would rather you had gone the other way. Science proves God.

Anyhow. Consciousness is my God. Surely without it I'd have the better chance at sainthood.

"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu (1926)

"Life is a hideous thing, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous. Science, already oppressive with its shocking revelations, will perhaps be the ultimate exterminator of our human species — if separate species we be — for its reserve of unguessed horrors could never be borne by mortal brains if loosed upon the world." ~ Lovecraft, Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family (1920)

Have an outstanding day.

[Peter]

No 72 virgins?! Damnit!

Just kidding.

Well, we'd definitely have an uproar in the Vatican City. Those guys would disappear like a stack of cash. And there would be riots. Suicides. Lots of suicides as that idea dawned on people. What would they believe in? What kind of hope would they have left for the future? What would they think when they know there is no savior, no redemption, no justice waiting for them at the end of their life?

Say what you will, but the world is better off with God. Faith can crush you, and it can save your life when you're about to be crushed. Perhaps it is the very idea of God that gives us strength to ourselves. I'd hate to think of a world without that. Where would our ambition go? Everything as we know it would be turned on its head.

You realize that you've just said that the end justifies the means. It doesn't matter if it's true or not?

To answer the op, if discussions with many christians are any indication, christians would generally go batshit and start killing, raping and pillaging everyone else because it's only the threat of hell and the reward of heaven that keep them in check. These christians are dangerous creatures without their master around.