Matthew 5:17

[truthreality]

Some may say overriding the law and nullifying the law were the same. I can't find a verse were Jesus overrides the law, in fact in many chapters he encouraged others to follow the laws (and presumably this means all of them). So what effect should we suppose this fullfilment has on the old laws?

There are places in the New Testament where Jesus openly rejects the law.

For example, the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is something that God commands the people to keep holy and observe it strictly. There are places in the New Testament, however, where Jesus openly violates this commandment.

[truthreality]

It's not that difficult really. Imagine if each film in a trilogy were given personhood and could speak. Say, the Matrix. Could not the three, speaking in tamdem, reference themselves as the singular 'The Matrix,' yet retain their individuality and reference themselves as such by the distinct film titles depending on what the context calls for?

Even if we assume the trinity is one, it still holds three separate entities.

Yaweh is God the Father in the trinity.

The idea that another entity could be the savior of the world is openly rejected by Yaweh, God the Father.

Isaiah 43:11 "I, only I am Hashem (the Lord), and besides Me there is no savior"

In fact, Yaweh refers to his creation as part of him in some places as the Bible but he never gives any authority to anything other than himself.

[truthreality]

If they do such atrocities, they do not belong to the Lord, and therefore are not saved nor innocent...even if they think they are. The Epistles of Paul in the New are clear on this

Neither you nor Paul are capable of making such a judgement. That judgement is reserved to God.

Timsmith makes a good point. Even if I am forgiven for my sins I still deserve to undergo punishment. That's justice.

[truthreality]

I will agree that God extends good-will to all mankind but his love for us is both intense beyond our understanding and just which mandates limits on the extension of his good-will. To the extent that good is offered and rejected, righteous anger and disgust follows. The emotions which stem from genuine love demand it. Have you ever considered that for the God hater, it could be more torturous to spend eternity under God's rule and amonst God's people than to spend eternity in utter solitude? Why would God want to remind himself of scorned love by extending his life force to such a group?

Because God knows better than these people and God knows that nothing compares to his presence. These people are blinded by ignorance and it is God's duty to shed light through his grace. I am sorry but the Christian God's love is easy to understand. It is a selfish and incomplete love.

To the extent that God offers good, he is offended by those who reject it. Hell is nothing more (in the negative) than the equivalent of what a man rejects when he rejects a good God (in the positive) in the person of Jesus.

Actually hell is a place created specifically by God for suffering and punishment. How can God be offended? Beings are only offended if they have an ego and take it personally. God doesn't have an ego, therefore he won't get offended. He is a completely selfless being.

Genuine love, among other things, is always just and hell is the mathematical equation that takes account of all of the factors and solves the principle of the law of God's love.

I am sorry but eternally damnation is not supported mathematically. It doesn't even add up logically.

[RedDaze]

I dont understand you, truthreality. On one side you're presenting supposed fallacies in fundamental Christian beliefs and on another you're defining the extents of God's love and reasoning for judgement.

truthreality:
Even if we assume the trinity is one, it still holds three separate entities.

Yaweh is God the Father in the trinity.

The idea that another entity could be the savior of the world is openly rejected by Yaweh, God the Father.

Isaiah 43:11 "I, only I am Hashem (the Lord), and besides Me there is no savior"

In fact, Yaweh refers to his creation as part of him in some places as the Bible but he never gives any authority to anything other than himself.

Even being three separate entities simply because of their form, it is still one God and does not in any way imply they are individual gods under their own jurisdiction. Its not hard to imagine that such a powerful being could simultaneously be God, himself in flesh on earth, and a spirit called the Holy Spirit.

Edit:

I mean, when you think about it, it's a lot like (actually exactly like) one person playing under three aliases in an MMORPG or something. While they are individuals in their own regards, they operate under one.

[truthreality]

Even being three separate entities simply because of their form, it is still one God and does not in any way imply they are individual gods under their own jurisdiction. Its not hard to imagine that such a powerful being could simultaneously be God, himself in flesh on earth, and a spirit called the Holy Spirit.

I think you are missing my point.

The trinity is a concept introduced in the New Testament.

No where in the Old Testament is it mentioned.

God the Father explicitly states in the Old Testament that he is the only God and Savior.

The Old Testament mentions angels. You would think then that they would mention God's only Son!

Why would the Old Testament keep Jesus ambiguous if he is the future lamb? Our eternal destiny depends on him.

The New Testament is similar to the Koran.

You have believers and writers changing core philosphical concepts to fit their ideology.

[RedDaze]

truthreality:
I think you are missing my point.

The trinity is a concept introduced in the New Testament.

No where in the Old Testament is it mentioned.

God the Father explicitly states in the Old Testament that he is the only God and Savior.

The Old Testament mentions angels. You would think then that they would mention God's only Son!

Why would the Old Testament keep Jesus ambiguous if he is the future lamb? Our eternal destiny depends on him.

The New Testament is similar to the Koran.

You have believers and writers changing core philosphical concepts to fit their ideology.

Then your point needs to be larger so I can aim better. I can hardly hit a lamppost 10 feet away with a snowball.

I'll restate my previous point, then. The best explanation for why that is is because Jesus was not born at the time. This stuff was [probably] recorded hundreds if not more years before his birth. A Messiah was already known to be arriving, which alludes to the possibility of Jesus, but why no one is mentioned specifically I do not know. Therefore, there would be no reason to mention a trinity if there was only God and the Holy Spirit. That would be a... binity? Besides, angels follow God's orders. They're not going to go spoil God's big surprise, are they?

I'll agree about the similarities to the Koran, but you're going to have to prove that (good luck, all the authors are dead! . I honestly don't think it's 100% factual or as intended, but I think it would be fair to say that at least some of it has a possibility of being correct.

[truthreality]

I'll restate my previous point, then. The best explanation for why that is is because Jesus was not born at the time. This stuff was [probably] recorded hundreds if not more years before his birth. A Messiah was already known to be arriving, which alludes to the possibility of Jesus, but why no one is mentioned specifically I do not know. Therefore, there would be no reason to mention a trinity if there was only God and the Holy Spirit. That would be a... binity? Besides, angels follow God's orders. They're not going to go spoil God's big surprise, are they?

Jesus wasn't born? Why do Christians say Jesus is the Alpha and Omega then?

[RedDaze]

truthreality:
Jesus wasn't born? Why do Christians say Jesus is the Alpha and Omega then?

Please don't ask me to account for every comment made by other people, especially when there's a chance they're hardcore believers that still think masturbation is a sin.

If anything, they were referring to how Jesus is God and God is... well, you know. Jesus in the physical form had a birth date and a birth mother. I guess you can call him the Alpha of our current 2012-year period.

[truthreality]

If anything, they were referring to how Jesus is God and God is... well, you know. Jesus in the physical form had a birth date and a birth mother. I guess you can call him the Alpha of our current 2012-year period.

Jesus is God? Jesus is a man. Jesus is often referred throughout the Bible as the son of man.

Numbers 23:19 "God, is not a man, who can lie, nor the son of man.."

[timsmith]

There are places in the New Testament where Jesus openly rejects the law.

For example, the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is something that God commands the people to keep holy and observe it strictly. There are places in the New Testament, however, where Jesus openly violates this commandment.

Yet when asked how to get into heaven he replies "keep the lord's commandments". and in another chapter "anyone who breaks any of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven" (or words to that effect). A hypocrite? One can't blame him, he was only human.

[Questatement]

Even if we assume the trinity is one, it still holds three separate entities.

Yaweh is God the Father in the trinity.

The idea that another entity could be the savior of the world is openly rejected by Yaweh, God the Father.

Isaiah 43:11 "I, only I am Hashem (the Lord), and besides Me there is no savior"

In fact, Yaweh refers to his creation as part of him in some places as the Bible but he never gives any authority to anything other than himself.

I don't blame any of the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day if they chose to see things your way. However, when Jesus rose from the dead, he put to rest this debate via the demonstration of having the power over life and death... an attribute that only God possesses.

A just God could do no less.