Atheist Atrocities and a Confusion of Causes

[gharik]

Theism= Belief in a personal God.

Atheism= (literally) Not Theism

Ergo

Atheism= No belief in a personal God.

Anything else you inject into Atheism is your misunderstanding.


Now that said, I am a Humanist, and a scientific naturalist, and a democrat, and a determinist. Those are my positive views that I happily discuss and defend, but none of those things are Atheism.

Those definitions may be useful, but how do you distinguish "atheism" (using your definition) from the belief that no God exists? It seems like a useful distinction to make.


EDIT: I've argued multiple times on this site that atheism refers to a class of belief systems, namely those those belief systems that do not include the belief "There exists at least one god." Many different belief systems might implement atheism--say, secular humanism, or some suitable version of Platonism. Given this understanding of what atheism means, it's not entirely clear what it would mean if atheism were true. Perhaps it would simply mean "if a belief system does not implement atheism (i.e., the system is theist), then the system necessarily contains a falsehood".

But I'm wondering if you could define 'the' Atheist belief system as being the intersection of every belief system that implements atheism. Interestingly, under this definition, 'the' Atheist belief system is equivalent to nihilism (the empty belief system). Kind of cool.

[Ken Carman]

Q

Is disbelief in God really all that atheism is?

Actually, I would tend to say, "Yes." There are no holy or unholy churches of the atheist... UU comes closes,t but there are plenty of us quirky theists there too and I suspect most simple attend no where... atheists tend to vary except in their claim "no God." In fact that claim isn't as firm as you would think, given the use of "Atheist." Many I have discussed issues and argued with here are closer to really being an Agnostic, IMO, than an Atheist. Note: I do not buy into the usage of "agnostic Atheists," or "atheist Agnostics," because they are contextual abominations... watering down both concepts, IMO. But that's another topic and maybe mostly just me.

g

Those definitions may be useful, but how do you distinguish "atheism" (using your definition) from the belief that no God exists? It seems like a useful distinction to make.


EDIT: I've argued multiple times on this site that atheism refers to a class of belief systems, namely those those belief systems that do not include the belief "There exists at least one god." Many different belief systems might implement atheism--say, secular humanism, or some suitable version of Platonism. Given this understanding of what atheism means, it's not entirely clear what it would mean if atheism were true. Perhaps it would simply mean "if a belief system does not implement atheism (i.e., the system is theist), then the system necessarily contains a falsehood".

But I'm wondering if you could define 'the' Atheist belief system as being the intersection of every belief system that implements atheism. Interestingly, under this definition, 'the' Atheist belief system is equivalent to nihilism (the empty belief system). Kind of cool.

How exactly do you "implement" atheism? Seems more related to inaction, as in "not to accept, or agree." In this sense I would think "anti-ism on a personal, just you, level" might be more apt, though awkward. Of course atheism intersects with other things, but I suspect you could do that with everything/almost anything. Polytheists generally intersect with mono, not only at theism but virgin birth: a common story for deities, and other theological concepts/stories. In the more extreme versions of this it's a bit like pointing out most murderers chewed gum when young, so if we just killed young gum chewers there'd be far less murders. Or maybe more like claiming a lot of crime is caused by pot so it should be illegal, not noting the illegality probably is the source of most of that crime. Even better, simply because most rapists had formula as a baby I(if the case could be made), that doesn't mean formula creates murderers. Some intersections don't mean a hell of a lot, I suspect.

[gharik]

How exactly do you "implement" atheism? Seems more related to inaction, as in "not to accept, or agree." In this sense I would think "anti-ism on a personal, just you, level" might be more apt, though awkward.

A belief system implements atheism if that system does not include the belief "There exists at least one god." Secular humanism implements atheism; Christianity does not.

Of course atheism intersects with other things, but I suspect you could do that with everything/almost anything. Polytheists generally intersect with mono, not only at theism but virgin birth: a common story for deities, and other theological concepts/stories. In the more extreme versions of this it's a bit like pointing out most murderers chewed gum when young, so if we just killed young gum chewers there'd be far less murders. Or maybe more like claiming a lot of crime is caused by pot so it should be illegal, not noting the illegality probably is the source of most of that crime. Even better, simply because most rapists had formula as a baby I(if the case could be made), that doesn't mean formula creates murderers. Some intersections don't mean a hell of a lot, I suspect.

This doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense. What do you mean by "atheism"?

[arX]

EDIT: I've argued multiple times on this site that atheism refers to a class of belief systems, namely those those belief systems that do not include the belief "There exists at least one god." Many different belief systems might implement atheism--say, secular humanism, or some suitable version of Platonism. Given this understanding of what atheism means, it's not entirely clear what it would mean if atheism were true. Perhaps it would simply mean "if a belief system does not implement atheism (i.e., the system is theist), then the system necessarily contains a falsehood".

But I'm wondering if you could define 'the' Atheist belief system as being the intersection of every belief system that implements atheism. Interestingly, under this definition, 'the' Atheist belief system is equivalent to nihilism (the empty belief system). Kind of cool.

I don't know why you do this to yourself.

"Atheism is a belief system" =/= "Belief systems that implement atheism"

You're reaching to a ridiculous extent in denying that 'lack of belief' means just that (for fuck knows what reason*) by raping logic so brutally as to argue that no belief = a belief system, let alone a belief!

*Anyone?

[finder]

I don't know why you do this to yourself.

"Atheism is a belief system" =/= "Belief systems that implement atheism"

You're reaching to a ridiculous extent in denying that 'lack of belief' means just that (for fuck knows what reason*) by raping logic so brutally as to argue that no belief = a belief system, let alone a belief!

*Anyone?

Is dark just the absence of light or does it have it's own unique characteristics?

Is bad just the absence of good or does it have it's own characteristics?

Is atheism just the absence of theism or...

[arX]

Is atheism just the absence of theism or...

It's the only "characteristic" shared by all atheists.

Now what's that got to do with whether atheism is a belief system or not?

[finder]

It's the only "characteristic" shared by all atheists.

Now what's that got to do with whether atheism is a belief system or not?

Everything you're willing to believe is filtered through the lenses of atheism. And that is characteristic of atheism.

[arX]

Everything you're willing to believe is filtered through the lenses of atheism.

Oh? I didn't know that about myself. Thanks for your insight.

Now what does it mean and what has it got to do with how atheism is(n't) a belief system?

[Maryjane]

Everything you're willing to believe is filtered through the lenses of atheism.

Every time I change the cat's litter, they immediately use the box. I believe they have an obsession with clean litter.

Is this belief about my cats "filtered through the lenses" of my atheism?

[finder]

Oh? I didn't know that about myself. Thanks for your insight.

Now what does it mean and what has it got to do with how atheism is(n't) a belief system?

It means what ever evidence you come across you compartmentalize it according to your atheistic beliefs. For instance if I were to ask you do you know with 100% certainty that there is no spirit God, you in all likelihood would answer no, there is always the element of the unknown. Or something to that affect if you are totally objective as most atheists claim. Then, if I were to ask you "what would make you consider there is a God?", you in all likelihood would claim if there was evidence tied to God then you would reconsider. And if I asked what would qualify as evidence, you most likely would say "falsifiable" evidence. That is a depiction of the atheistic belief system concerning God who is spirit just as "truth" is spirit. A universal truth is true whether it's "testable" or not but atheism doesn't allow that fact to influence their belief system.

[finder]

Every time I change the cat's litter, they immediately use the box. I believe they have an obsession with clean litter.

Is this belief about my cats "filtered through the lenses" of my atheism?

And if I believed the same thing it wouldn't have anything to do with theism. So what's your point? We're talking about belief systems concerning God, not cat litter.

[arX]

It means what ever evidence you come across you compartmentalize it according to your atheistic beliefs.

What are my atheistic beliefs?

For instance if I were to ask you do you know with 100% certainty that there is no spirit God, you in all likelihood would answer no, there is always the element of the unknown. Or something to that affect if you are totally objective as most atheists claim. Then, if I were to ask you "what would make you consider there is a God?", you in all likelihood would claim if there was evidence tied to God then you would reconsider. And if I asked what would qualify as evidence, you most likely would say "falsifiable" evidence.

Still don't see where "atheistic beliefs" come in.

That is a depiction of the atheistic belief system

What belief system? What beliefs?

concerning God who is spirit just as "truth" is spirit.

This makes no sense.

A universal truth is true whether it's "testable" or not but atheism doesn't allow that fact to influence their belief system.

Again, what belief system?