The prayer of a wise man

[finder]

“I pray Thee, O God, that I may be beautiful within. ”

Socrates

Socrates Quotes (Author of Essential Thinkers - Socrates (Barnes & Noble Collector's Library))

I wonder if he ever believed himself to be an ape?

Or if people told him he believed in God because he had insufficient understanding?

Thoughts?

[BlackSheep]

I wonder if he ever believed himself to be an ape?

There was no theory of evolution then for anyone to think that, so no. I am not even sure if the Greeks knew of apes at all.

Or if people told him he believed in God because he had insufficient understanding?

Socrates didn't believe in Yahweh,but maybe you mean gods? I find it unlikely that he was accused of that, but I am unsure. Certainly today we can explain much more of the world around us and so gods seem less likely.

Thoughts?

I think it was a very different time and place. We understand the universe much more.

[finder]

There was no theory of evolution then for anyone to think that, so no. I am not even sure if the Greeks knew of apes at all.

Good point. Their minds weren't corrupted yet.

Socrates didn't believe in Yahweh,but maybe you mean gods? I find it unlikely that he was accused of that, but I am unsure. Certainly today we can explain much more of the world around us and so gods seem less likely.

How do you know he didn't believe in Yahweh?
I do too.
How so?

I think it was a very different time and place. We understand the universe much more.

Meaning?

[BlackSheep]

Good point. Their minds weren't corrupted yet.

Corrupted by knowledge? Do you feel that thee is nothing to evolution? I assume you were not speaking about knowledge of apes.

How do you know he didn't believe in Yahweh?

Well he was not Jewish and he spoke of gods not Yahweh.

I do too.

Good

How so?

Well in the case of Socrates the gods controlled many natural forces etc or what we would call natural now. Things we understand how they work now, so it would seem less logical to assume gods now.

Meaning?

Well I meant a few things. They were far more traditional then and often people would be persecuted for being a non-believer. For example Christians in Rome were not generally killed for being Christians, but rather for not believing in the gods of Rome.

Specifically I was talking about the fact we understand how much more of the universe works and from the mind set of a lay person or a philosopher gods seem less necessary. Certainly theologically thinking people are very different, but they are not that common. They would not be as swayed by that knowlege or as you might say would be less corrupted by it.

[Peter]

I wonder if he ever believed himself to be an ape?

We are not apes. We are descended from a common ancestor with the apes. In fact, as you go back in time every living thing on the planet has a common ancestor but I don't consider myself a jellyfish either.

Why is that sooooo difficult for some people to understand?

“The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.”
― Socrates

[Angry Citizen]

How do you know he didn't believe in Yahweh?

Well at the time, Yahweh as you know him wasn't yet invented. Certainly Paul's prattlings were centuries hence, and Jesus was an ache in his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-granddaddy's crotch.

[BHownsall]

Quote by: BlackSheep
There was no theory of evolution then for anyone to think that, so no. I am not even sure if the Greeks knew of apes at all.

Good point. Their minds weren't corrupted yet.

I love this whole opposition to evolution thing, it amuses me to no end. If evolution is contrary to God's word and must be opposed, then so is our modern understanding of human physiology. Open any medical textbook, you won't find a single mention of the possibility of human parthenogenesis...the vile heathens!

[finder]

Well at the time, Yahweh as you know him wasn't yet invented. Certainly Paul's prattlings were centuries hence, and Jesus was an ache in his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-granddaddy's crotch.

Yahweh is a transliteration of Jehovah, the God of the old testament. Well before Socrates's time.

[finder]

Corrupted by knowledge? Do you feel that thee is nothing to evolution? I assume you were not speaking about knowledge of apes.

False and/or drastically incomplete knowledge; and I was being humorous. No. Actually I wondered if he ever thought he was anything other then human.

Well he was not Jewish and he spoke of gods not Yahweh.

But his prayer was singular and the gods he spoke of he rejected...

Socrates' accusers cited two "impious" acts: "failing to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges" and "introducing new deities."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates

Well in the case of Socrates the gods controlled many natural forces etc or what we would call natural now. Things we understand how they work now, so it would seem less logical to assume gods now.

Because we understand a little more about the machinery of nature the logical conclusion is to assume there is no machinist, how so?

Well I meant a few things. They were far more traditional then and often people would be persecuted for being a non-believer. For example Christians in Rome were not generally killed for being Christians, but rather for not believing in the gods of Rome.

In some cases for not believing the resident Caesar was God.

Specifically I was talking about the fact we understand how much more of the universe works and from the mind set of a lay person or a philosopher gods seem less necessary. Certainly theologically thinking people are very different, but they are not that common. They would not be as swayed by that knowlege or as you might say would be less corrupted by it.

Well that would depend on the accuracy of the knowledge as to whether or not it would be corrupting or not. Can you explain the embolden part of your response?

[finder]

We are not apes. We are descended from a common ancestor with the apes. In fact, as you go back in time every living thing on the planet has a common ancestor but I don't consider myself a jellyfish either.

Why is that sooooo difficult for some people to understand?

“The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.”
― Socrates

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
― Socrates

[finder]

I love this whole opposition to evolution thing, it amuses me to no end. If evolution is contrary to God's word and must be opposed, then so is our modern understanding of human physiology. Open any medical textbook, you won't find a single mention of the possibility of human parthenogenesis...the vile heathens!

Is it contrary to God's word?

[Jack]

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
― Socrates

If that's true, the only wise people are those who are brain dead. No one can claim to "know nothing" honestly. We can, however, claim we know nothing for sure and that all we know is limited by our human brain. Absolute knowledge is beyond our abilities, but we can amass all sorts of knowledge and it can be useful to us as long as we acknowledge our limitations.