Questions for atheists

[finder]

Do you have "evil" thoughts?
Have you had one in the past?
Do you consider betrayal of trust "evil?"
Do you face temptation from that which you think you should resist?
Do you believe "evil" is a reality?

If your answer is "no" to any or all of the above for some generic reason like thoughts are just part of the experience of the human animal, then what stops you from acting on them since they can't be "wrong"? Being just chemical reactions in the brain and all?

[Jack]

"Evil" is a term that even within its proper context, religious belief, is poorly understood and defined.

Do I ever have thoughts that are unworthy of me, of which I'm not proud and would not act upon? Yes. In the past as well.

Betrayal of trust is just that, a betrayal of trust. If I'm the victim I suffer twice, emotionally and intellectually. It damages the feelings I may have for the person who betrays my trust and it causes me to be cautious in trusting them again.

Sure I'm sometimes tempted to say or do something that I believe to be inappropriate or potentially harmful to myself or another. Generally I'm good at resisting.

Define "evil" succinctly and perhaps I can better say if I believe it's a reality or not. I think there are more accurate and meaningful descriptions for what you mean when you use the word "evil".

Two things acting in harmony are what make me not a psychopath. I am a being with a conscience and I posses empathy. Empathy allows me to put myself in another's shoes, so to speak. It gives me a reason to treat others as I expect to be treated. It's the ability to understand that how I treat others is likely how I'll be treated in return. My conscience is a part of my self-awareness. It alerts me when I'm about to or already have violated my own standards of thought or deed. It's the repository in my brain for my ideals. It's where I keep an ideal image of myself, my thoughts and my actions. When I prepare to or do think, speak or behave less than my ideal my conscience lets me know.

The fact that my mind (which contains my conscience and emotions like empathy) is just a product of my brain which functions as a result of chemical and electrical impulses doesn't diminish its reality in my life. I live in a structured society with rules of behavior and laws. If I wish to remain a part of this society it's incumbent upon me to abide by those rules and laws or suffer the consequences. Since I find the consequences unacceptable I choose to abide by society's rules. Empathy makes that choice easier since most of the rules can be obeyed by simply treating everyone else the way I want to be treated. I don't need the force of law to keep me from driving like an ass because I'm well aware that when others drive like asses it puts me in danger and I don't appreciate that. I don't steal because I don't want to be stolen from. I'm not tempted to injure another animal because I would not enjoy being injured. It's a no-brainer to me, a simple process that doesn't require supernatural agents or scripted codes of conduct.

[finder]

Thanks for your honest response.

"Evil" is a term that even within its proper context, religious belief, is poorly understood and defined.

Define "evil" succinctly and perhaps I can better say if I believe it's a reality or not. I think there are more accurate and meaningful descriptions for what you mean when you use the word "evil".

Evil to me is totally and completely self serving. In contrast to "good" which is genuine concern, empathy toward others. So an evil thought would be self serving but the person who has such a thought can have good thoughts as well. Just that the evil thought is still completely selfish. Hope that is satisfactory.

I don't need the force of law to keep me from driving like an ass because I'm well aware that when others drive like asses it puts me in danger and I don't appreciate that. I don't steal because I don't want to be stolen from. I'm not tempted to injure another animal because I would not enjoy being injured. It's a no-brainer to me, a simple process that doesn't require supernatural agents or scripted codes of conduct.

So would it be fair to say it's a matter of self preservation?

[Jack]

Evil to me is totally and completely self serving.

Question then: recently I've been looking for work and have at least one job offer. Is looking for work "evil", since the immediate benefit to finding it is solely to myself? Sure, once I'm getting a paycheck I can do for others with the money, but the desire to be productive by holding a job is purely for my benefit. Does that qualify it as "evil"?

So would it be fair to say it's a matter of self preservation?

I would say the majority of what we do as individuals on a daily basis is a matter of self-preservation, not just physically but also emotionally. We behave the way we do, providing we're ethical gentlemen, because we want to preserve a decent image of ourselves in other people's minds, and because we get positive feedback when we behave that way. So yes, I'd say that treating others as we want to be treated is a matter of self-preservation. It's ensuring, as best we can ensure, reasonably fair and decent treatment of ourselves by other in our society.

[finder]

Question then: recently I've been looking for work and have at least one job offer. Is looking for work "evil", since the immediate benefit to finding it is solely to myself? Sure, once I'm getting a paycheck I can do for others with the money, but the desire to be productive by holding a job is purely for my benefit. Does that qualify it as "evil"?


I would say the majority of what we do as individuals on a daily basis is a matter of self-preservation, not just physically but also emotionally. We behave the way we do, providing we're ethical gentlemen, because we want to preserve a decent image of ourselves in other people's minds, and because we get positive feedback when we behave that way. So yes, I'd say that treating others as we want to be treated is a matter of self-preservation. It's ensuring, as best we can ensure, reasonably fair and decent treatment of ourselves by other in our society.

No, that wouldn't in my book because you atleast considered others even though it was a secondary thought. If you had no genuine concern for how it would affect others at all then your motives would be suspect rendering the action of job search evil. But I don't think that's the case for you. Your desire to benefit yourself isn't truly just for yourself, is it? You fooled me if it is.

Exactly my point. If we are preserving our image but inside we have unbecoming thoughts, isn't or image misleading and self serving?

[Zeebadee]

I am a being with a conscience and I posses empathy.

Exactly where did these attributes come from? How did you happen to acquire them?

[Angry Citizen]

Do you have "evil" thoughts?

Sure.

Do you consider betrayal of trust "evil?"

Among the basest forms.

Do you face temptation from that which you think you should resist?

Nope.

Do you believe "evil" is a reality?

Yes.

Does this exclude me from your cherry-picked, generalized debate?

[Night]

I don't act on evil-thoughts because morality is hard-wired into the brain, and I find no enjoyment out of activities that harm other people. Also, even if I did get some sadistic pleasure out of hurting others, I wouldn't do it either, because of the chance of prosecution I suppose. I don't know - I don't frequently have "evil thoughts", and I can't imagine how someone would get anjoyment out of hurting others.

Tell me finder, if god didn't tell you not to kill small children, and it was totally OK with him, would you do it?

And furthermore, catholic priests rape little boys and ask forgiveness for it later, if they're actually believers and don't want to go to hell. Don't you think forgiveness of sins can lead to more of these evil acts?

The christian view of morality just isn't supported by reality. People do whatever the hell they want to do. If god supports it, they'll do it. If god doesn't support it, they'll do it and beg forgiveness later, if at all. Belief in god doesn't make people any more moral than atheism.

Do you have "evil" thoughts?

Yes. I just finished having quite explicit and sexually deviant thoughts of a black midget gang-bang. I'm kidding, but everyone has evil thoughts.

[ozzie666]

If you had no genuine concern for how it would affect others at all then your motives would be suspect rendering the action of job search evil

ok, so according to gods standard, a person without a job or money is committing evil when searching for a ways to fix their situation? i've been jobless for the last 4 months, searching for a job everyday, simply because im fuckin broke and i need money. and im certainly not... "evil"

you dont really have the right to dictate what is evil and whats not. because apparently to you a simple task such as job hunting is evil.

as another volcon has stated, was the raping of children by catholic priests any more or less evil? i suppose it doesnt matter if they can just apologise, repent n they're sweet.

[finder]

ok, so according to gods standard, a person without a job or money is committing evil when searching for a ways to fix their situation? i've been jobless for the last 4 months, searching for a job everyday, simply because im fuckin broke and i need money. and im certainly not... "evil"

you dont really have the right to dictate what is evil and whats not. because apparently to you a simple task such as job hunting is evil.

as another volcon has stated, was the raping of children by catholic priests any more or less evil? i suppose it doesnt matter if they can just apologise, repent n they're sweet.

I was addressing a specific question from Jack inwhich he set the perimeters. Of course job search isn't evil. The point is if you are only self serving, that is evil. And I have every right to hold that opinion. A single thought can be evil but of course it doesn't automatically make all thoughts evil. But since we have bad thoughts then we can't be good because good isn't coming naturally. We have to make the effort for goodness. If what I'm saying isn't true then we woudn't have to strive for goodness, we would just be good with no inkling for evil at all.

Yes, priest (the relative few) that have raped children are evil by their actions. I would go 1 step further and question their faith for any Christian knows God knows the heart of those who don't sincerely strive to be Christ like.

[Night]

Yes, priest (the relative few) that have raped children are evil by their actions. I would go 1 step further and question their faith for any Christian knows God knows the heart of those who don't sincerely strive to be Christ like.

Finder, the point is, religion does not make people more moral. All it does is make them pay lip service to morality on Sunday morning.

The same moral Christians you know who would never even drink alcohol would probably be the same way if they were atheists. The same criminals in jail who are christians would probably have done the same things if they were atheists.

Do you need god to tell you it's bad to murder someone so that you don't go ahead and do it? Would you kill kids if god didn't tell you it was bad? No? Me neither, and god isn't telling me that any of that is wrong, that is my decision.

The LAW of man is much more effective than god's laws.

[minorwork]

I was addressing a specific question from Jack in which he set the perimeters. Of course job search isn't evil. The point is if you are only self serving, that is evil. And I have every right to hold that opinion.

Is your next point to be that all humans are genetically predisposed, or sin stained from the fall of the first humans' Fall at the Garden, to be self-serving by reason of their existence at some point as demonstrated by job hunting, filling out unemployment insurance applications, or causing the death of potential rice plant for eating a seed?

Are you looking to define harmless actions of your readers as sin? Would somebody bringing guilt into the mind of another, where previously there was none, make that person evil? A perceptive individual told this story to me and other Volcons.


A South American shaman is talking to a missionary.
Shaman: "What would have happened if you had never told us about your god?"
Missionary: "You would have died and gone to heaven as innocents who had never heard the word of god."
Shaman: "But now that you've told us?"
Missionary: "You must repent your sins and live as Christians or you'll die and go to hell."
Shaman: "So why did you tell us?" Told by Jack at Volconvo