Figured that out in the middle of this thread:Quote by: BlackSheep
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/relig...s-atheism.html
Figured that out in the middle of this thread:
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/relig...s-atheism.html
Most people still believe there is time. Though, yes, basic beliefs can and sometimes do change.
I am glad you agree that that evidence can cause you to change your beliefs, even "basic" ones. And you agree they can, what would it take you to stop believing?
A agree. If your faith in your god one of these?
I see what you mean.
Of course, nothing in relativity suggests otherwise.
Yes, God is my basic belief. What would it take for me to disbelieve? A lot. First, disprove Christianity. Second, sound argument for atheism.
What does "disprove christianity" even mean? It can be taken apart piece by piece but like some zombie it can't be killed. People apparently need gods to believe in. What would it take to "disprove christianity" for you? I suspect it's impossible. You would always be able to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to hold onto your cherished belief.
And a "sound argument for atheism?" You mean a sound argument for the default position? I assume you were born without any beliefs in gods. Do you need a sound argument for not believing in Leprechauns or the Norse gods?
You were born without any language or religion. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you now speak english and practice christianity because they are the language and religion of your parents. Funny how that works isn't it and so lucky for you that you were born of parents with the right religion!
Religion is poison because it asks us to give up our most precious faculty, which is that of reason, and to believe things without evidence. It then asks us to respect this, which it calls faith. - Christopher Hitchens
That is not really saying anything. What in your mind would disprove Christianity?
And there s no sound argument for not believing in something in general, there is simply a lack of evidence.
A rather vague challenge. Disprove that which lacks proof and instead relies solely on faith? I suggest, based on my own experience and that of other ex-theists I've talked with, that sufficient reasons exist to challenge the assumptions of Christianity and discredit the Bible as an inspired word of a god. All one needs to appreciate them is a willingness to ask themselves difficult questions and answer honestly. One needs to be determined to discover knowledge and not settle for belief....disprove Christianity
Divorcing ones self from religious belief is unsettling and can create anxiety, but only because theists have made it so. The threats and intimidation employed by the religions to discourage their members from questioning their beliefs ought to be the first sign that there must be something in theology that fears discovery, that will resist with all its might close scrutiny. Any belief system that operates from a position of fear and feels it necessary to demonize those who refuse to accept its claims has something to hide, some lack that it covers up with bluster and threats.
No argument against any religious belief will convince those determined to believe regardless of what contrary evidence they are presented with. All we as atheists can do is continue to expose the underside of religious belief, the inconsistencies that are usually glossed over or dismissed out-of-hand by religious leaders, the corruption and abuse that exists within many churches today, in hopes that a few theists will take an honest, unfiltered look at their beliefs and realize how inadequate and outdated they are, and continue in their striving to find reasonable answers to the questions we all have.
There isn't one. Atheism is simple the position one arrives at when they have exhausted their ability to believe in gods. It's the dismissal of an unsound philosophy. It's not an endpoint but rather the beginning of a life spent searching for better answers than faith, using more productive means than faith, searching for knowledge instead of faith....sound argument for atheism
The Forum Rules
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
[John F. Kennedy]
The principal value of debate lies in the development of logical thought processes, and the ability to articulate your positions publicly.
[Senator Dick Clark of Iowa]
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
[Terry Pratchett]
Many are content to say, "If that's how you think the world works, that's fine," but I don't have much respect for that stance. If people are making claims about the world (or the universe, if one prefers that), they are also making claims about me. Therefore, I have some basic interest in whether this person is right or not, or if I am right or not.
For example, claims that you're "sinning in your heart" should be explained and verified on some factual basis. If they can't be, it's basically disproven already. This isn't true only of "religious" claims, but of any claim.
Grandpa h.
Post by post, building his arguments by smashing a couple of theirs -- for America.
@Peter, Blackship, and Jack
1) Why is this even brought up???
To be fair, you seem to enjoy this, but how am I even supposed to respond to this?:
Or to this?:People apparently need gods to believe in. What would it take to "disprove christianity" for you? I suspect it's impossible. You would always be able to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to hold onto your cherished belief.
Guys, there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. You can be open-minded, honest, and reasonable while being a theist.Divorcing ones self from religious belief is unsettling and can create anxiety, but only because theists have made it so. The threats and intimidation employed by the religions to discourage their members from questioning their beliefs ought to be the first sign that there must be something in theology that fears discovery, that will resist with all its might close scrutiny. Any belief system that operates from a position of fear and feels it necessary to demonize those who refuse to accept its claims has something to hide, some lack that it covers up with bluster and threats.
No argument against any religious belief will convince those determined to believe regardless of what contrary evidence they are presented with. All we as atheists can do is continue to expose the underside of religious belief, the inconsistencies that are usually glossed over or dismissed out-of-hand by religious leaders, the corruption and abuse that exists within many churches today, in hopes that a few theists will take an honest, unfiltered look at their beliefs and realize how inadequate and outdated they are, and continue in their striving to find reasonable answers to the questions we all have.
2)Argument
One, English is my second language. Two, I am not a Catholic while my family is. Three, I was a Buddhist and an agnostic once. Finally and most importantly, you just managed to make the genetic fallacy and misinterpret the bible. The bible never says that you need to be a Christian to go to heaven, rather it's about how you respond to what you're given. Of course, there are other interpretations but that's a different issue.You were born without any language or religion. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you now speak english and practice christianity because they are the language and religion of your parents. Funny how that works isn't it and so lucky for you that you were born of parents with the right religion!
3)Basic beliefs
I suppose, you're not going to convert me then.There isn't one
I have already dealt with this. Atheism isn't the default position for all. Incidentally, some basic belief develop.You mean a sound argument for the default position? I assume you were born without any beliefs in gods.
For example, prove that Jesus doesn't exist.That is not really saying anything. What in your mind would disprove Christianity?
I don't think anyone is suggesting anything s wrong with you. It is human nature and is not limited to religion alone. People will often do similar things to convince themselves their spouse is not cheating.@Peter, Blackship, and Jack
1) Why is this even brought up???
To be fair, you seem to enjoy this, but how am I even supposed to respond to this?:
Guys, there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. You can be open-minded, honest, and reasonable while being a theist.
The real questions are do you see these things happening. It is not a blaming you thing, it is a this is what we see thing.
There are of course exceptions, but just looking at a world map of religious distribution will make it clear the majority of people stick with the religion they were raised with.
There is no conversion. There is belief in one or more gods and then there is a lack of belief.
You stated your opinion.
Explain it not in the world of Atheist vs Theist but in the real world full of many flavors of theists. In general most people believe in a very small subset of religious views. They have no faith in the rest. The default for any particular god(s) or religious view is no belief. If that belief falters then they have no belief until (if) they acquire another.
In the case of an ill defined spiritual entity there is no way to prove it doesn't exist.
You can't prove Zeus, Vishnu, Thor, Amaterasu, Quetzalcoatl, Yahweh or Jesus doesn't exist.
By saying it would take that you are basically saying it can't be done.
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