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Thread: Christianity is Ridiculous...

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    Staunch Gaytheist Night's Avatar
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    Christianity is Ridiculous...

    This thread is for Christians out there. Please read the following as if you were an alien from outer space, hearing about Christianity for the very first time. If I have made any mistakes in explaining the religion please tell me so.

    Christianity

    God created the earth about 6,000 years ago. While many dating methods appear to show a much older earth...the earth and everything in it is six thousand years old. When god created the earth, he created it nearly as it presently is (biologically).

    People lived for a very long time back then, and the gene pool was so inbred that it much resembled your quaint little redneck trailer parks of today, sister mating with brother, and so on. For some reason there never appears to have been any complications from this unbelievable amunt of ancient inbreeding which eventually created us all.

    Eventually, the world became a sinful place. God became angry at the very people he created. Thus, the only logical solution in his eyes was to flood the entire place and kill 'em all. He told a man to build a very big boat. Two of every animal on the planet and his entire family were loaded on to the boat.

    I know, this all sounds very silly so far, but a thousands-year old book tells us God did it. We believe God did it because the book tells us to believe it. It really is that simple.

    Now, eventually, for some reason or another, god decided to impregnate a virgin woman, who would give birth to god's son. God was not as creative in this case as the Egyptians, no baby down the Nile, or the Greeks. God simply impregnated a virgin woman, and did not have sex with her. For theatrical story telling, please read the Old Testament. It seems tha the god of the new testament left all of the theatrics to his son. It is impossible that she had sex and made the whole "I'm still a virgin" story up, because the bible says so.

    God's son, named Jesus in the English language, did a few Hollywood 'miracles' and had a bunch of roadies on tour with him. Eventually, Jesus needed to die a painful death. Jesus needed to die on a cross. He couldn't just die in a high-speed camel crash, he had to die on the cross.

    Why did he have to die? I can't really say. God could have just snapped his fingers and had the same result had he so pleased. God has no restrictions on his power. But it sounded good, makes as much sense as slaughtering a cow to erase your cosmic ticket lost.

    So after Jesus valiantly died, his disciples and others wrote books. A few hundred years later, a group of people who had nothing to do with Jesus decided what books made up the new testament. There are a TON of books claiming to tell the true story, but they willy-hilly picked the right, and factually accurate ones. Did god tell them which books were accurate and which weren't? We'll never know.

    How's my summary?

    It's ridiculous isn't it?

    Turning your sacred cows into steak.
    "Reality is for people who can't cope with drugs" - Robin Williams
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Christians must have penis envy. And by penis, I mean Islam.

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    Igneous Magma
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    when put so eloquently, it does sound pretty ridiculous! and although i agree with you, i think you'll find there are a whole bunch of people that reckon you might have a few holes in your summary


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    Molten Ash
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    The Bible is far and away the most important, most influential, most read, most discussed work of literature in human history. I would be very surprised if it will be superseded by you post. The Bible is the basis of Christianity but I personally don't know any Christians who believe as you say they do. It is not interpretation of the Bible they have in common, it is belief in a supreme being. You have not addressed this point at all and it might be that which your alien reader would actually pick up on. If you think that Christianity is ridiculous primarily (or solely) because of writing then you are missing (or at least, not addressing) what would appear to be by far the biggest hole in the idea. Christianity, of course, is not unique in the assertion that there are gods and any stories attrubuted to other religions are no more or less ridiculous than those of Christianity if you do not accept the initial premise. Because your summary seems to accept the idea that there is a god (since you make no attempt to question the single biggest assertion of both the Bible and Christianity) your summary, to a nonbeliever or an alien, would then seem just as ridiculous as that which it summarises.


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    Molten Ash Jon1's Avatar
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    This thread is for Christians out there. Please read the following as if you were an alien from outer space, hearing about Christianity for the very first time. If I have made any mistakes in explaining the religion please tell me so.

    Christianity

    God created the earth about 6,000 years ago. While many dating methods appear to show a much older earth...the earth and everything in it is six thousand years old. When god created the earth, he created it nearly as it presently is (biologically).
    Not all people are young earth creationists. In fact, most Christians are not. Augustine, a man who lived long before the discovery of evolution, is one of them:
    Augustine of Hippo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    People lived for a very long time back then, and the gene pool was so inbred that it much resembled your quaint little redneck trailer parks of today, sister mating with brother, and so on. For some reason there never appears to have been any complications from this unbelievable amunt of ancient inbreeding which eventually created us all.

    Eventually, the world became a sinful place. God became angry at the very people he created. Thus, the only logical solution in his eyes was to flood the entire place and kill 'em all. He told a man to build a very big boat. Two of every animal on the planet and his entire family were loaded on to the boat.

    I know, this all sounds very silly so far, but a thousands-year old book tells us God did it. We believe God did it because the book tells us to believe it. It really is that simple.
    Same as above. Except, Christians do have arguments for their faith, unlike you said. Examples:
    The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology: Amazon.co.uk: William Lane Craig, J. P. Moreland: Books

    The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus: Amazon.co.uk: Lee Strobel: Books

    You may disagree with the reasons, but it's not that simple, as you say.

    Now, eventually, for some reason or another, god decided to impregnate a virgin woman, who would give birth to god's son. God was not as creative in this case as the Egyptians, no baby down the Nile, or the Greeks. God simply impregnated a virgin woman, and did not have sex with her. For theatrical story telling, please read the Old Testament. It seems tha the god of the new testament left all of the theatrics to his son. It is impossible that she had sex and made the whole "I'm still a virgin" story up, because the bible says so.
    I don't think the above arguments merit a refutation, they're too trivial. For example, it is possible that Mary had sex, but it's improbable if, for example, Jesus resurrected.

    God's son, named Jesus in the English language, did a few Hollywood 'miracles' and had a bunch of roadies on tour with him. Eventually, Jesus needed to die a painful death. Jesus needed to die on a cross. He couldn't just die in a high-speed camel crash, he had to die on the cross.
    He didn't have to die on the cross. Not sure from where this notion is coming.

    Why did he have to die? I can't really say. God could have just snapped his fingers and had the same result had he so pleased. God has no restrictions on his power. But it sounded good, makes as much sense as slaughtering a cow to erase your cosmic ticket lost.
    Christian philosophers and most Christians alike would disagree.
    Debate Topic: The Omnipotence Paradox is Self-Refuting | Debate.org

    I do, however, find the idea of a dying God a bit strange. So I'll give you some points on this one.

    So after Jesus valiantly died, his disciples and others wrote books. A few hundred years later, a group of people who had nothing to do with Jesus decided what books made up the new testament. There are a TON of books claiming to tell the true story, but they willy-hilly picked the right, and factually accurate ones. Did god tell them which books were accurate and which weren't? We'll never know.
    Concerning resurrection, here's another view (I don't fully agree with this,btw):
    12. With Mike Licona - The Resurrection - YouTube

    Concerning the books of the bible, this is a good article:
    What are the Gnostic gospels?

    How's my summary?
    It was okay. Most Christians would simply say "I believe in evolution" or "But I do have reasons for my faith", but at least you tried. Word of advice: don't summarize something as large as Christianity, please. You'll just end up with fragile arguments, instead focus on something specific. Quality > Quantity.

    It's ridiculous isn't it?



  5. #5
    Staunch Gaytheist Night's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    Not all people are young earth creationists. In fact, most Christians are not. Augustine, a man who lived long before the discovery of evolution, is one of them:
    Augustine of Hippo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Good, I'm glad that "most Christians" are smart enough to ignore at least SOME of the bible. The facts are the facts, the bible states beyond ANY DOUBT that the earth is around 6,000 years old. If you choose not to believe this, then you are picking and choosing which parts of the bible you believe in.

    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    Same as above. Except, Christians do have arguments for their faith, unlike you said. Examples:
    The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology: Amazon.co.uk: William Lane Craig, J. P. Moreland: Books

    The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus: Amazon.co.uk: Lee Strobel: Books

    You may disagree with the reasons, but it's not that simple, as you say.
    Please, instead of posting links, tell me in your OWN words, what is wrong with my summary of your religion?

    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    I don't think the above arguments merit a refutation, they're too trivial. For example, it is possible that Mary had sex, but it's improbable if, for example, Jesus resurrected.
    The bible says Mary was a virgin. Are you saying that it's possible the bible may be wrong?

    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    He didn't have to die on the cross. Not sure from where this notion is coming.
    Don't you see, the whole "Jesus" story is one giant allusion to the ancient practice of slaughtering animals to cleanse one's cosmic sin tab. A gruesome and barbaric religious practice, and your beloved Jesus is just another sheep in this barbaric ritual.

    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    Christian philosophers and most Christians alike would disagree.
    Debate Topic: The Omnipotence Paradox is Self-Refuting | Debate.org

    I do, however, find the idea of a dying God a bit strange. So I'll give you some points on this one.



    Concerning resurrection, here's another view (I don't fully agree with this,btw):
    12. With Mike Licona - The Resurrection - YouTube

    Concerning the books of the bible, this is a good article:
    What are the Gnostic gospels?
    This forum is not intended as a place to lazily refer to other media sources to make your arguments. How about you make an argument in your own words instead of expecting me to watch some youtube article? The burden of countering my claims is on you.

    Quote Quote by: Jon1 View Post
    It was okay. Most Christians would simply say "I believe in evolution" or "But I do have reasons for my faith", but at least you tried. Word of advice: don't summarize something as large as Christianity, please. You'll just end up with fragile arguments, instead focus on something specific. Quality > Quantity.
    I assert that you CANNOT logically believe in evolution, while also believing in the bible. The bible CLEARLY states that evolution cannot be true, by logical deduction of other biblical claims (such as the biblical age of the earth, which would deny evolution).

    So, what is it? Do you believe the bible or do you believe in evolution?

    Turning your sacred cows into steak.
    "Reality is for people who can't cope with drugs" - Robin Williams
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Christians must have penis envy. And by penis, I mean Islam.

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    Staunch Gaytheist Night's Avatar
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    Don't you realize how stupid the idea of GOD, the almighty creator, punishing people who don't believe in him? Why would GOD give a shit whether some sheep herder BELIEVES in him or not? No. I think this fact alone​ should tell any logical person that Christianity is a religion BY men, to serve the purposes OF men.

    Quote Quote by: Madshadows View Post
    The Bible is far and away the most important, most influential, most read, most discussed work of literature in human history. I would be very surprised if it will be superseded by you post.
    That is completely irrelevant. Glee is one of the most popular TV shows on the air. Does that make it any better than any other TV shows? Absolutely not. DO NOT make claims about the bible based on it's popularity. The fact that the bible is widely-read is a tribute only to the power of the threats it contains to those who don't believe it. A simple psychological scare tactic used to scare the sheep into the pen.

    Quote Quote by: Madshadows View Post
    The Bible is the basis of Christianity but I personally don't know any Christians who believe as you say they do. It is not interpretation of the Bible they have in common, it is belief in a supreme being. You have not addressed this point at all and it might be that which your alien reader would actually pick up on.
    Instead of being lazy and generalizing my statements, how about you address my statements individually, and tell me how they're incorrect? My summary is a literalist summary of the bible, and is just as accurate as your own interpretation, if not MORE accurate.

    Quote Quote by: Madshadows View Post
    If you think that Christianity is ridiculous primarily (or solely) because of writing then you are missing (or at least, not addressing) what would appear to be by far the biggest hole in the idea. Christianity, of course, is not unique in the assertion that there are gods and any stories attrubuted to other religions are no more or less ridiculous than those of Christianity if you do not accept the initial premise. Because your summary seems to accept the idea that there is a god (since you make no attempt to question the single biggest assertion of both the Bible and Christianity) your summary, to a nonbeliever or an alien, would then seem just as ridiculous as that which it summarises.
    I will leave challenging the existence of god for other threads.

    I am simply pointing out that Christianity is so illogical as to be thoroughly untrue. It is not a religion by god, it is a religion BY men, FOR men, to enslave the minds of society and paralyze any possible resistance to existing power structures. And it worked, for a very long time.

    Kings and Caesars in Europe didn't buy into Christianity for a long time, until that is, they found what a useful tool it could be. The monarchies of Europe adopted Christianity for the sole purpose of keeping their citizens poor, stupid, and happy. And it executed that goal flawlessly for well over a thousand years, using cheap psychological tricks.

    Turning your sacred cows into steak.
    "Reality is for people who can't cope with drugs" - Robin Williams
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Christians must have penis envy. And by penis, I mean Islam.

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    I find the very idea that GOD would punish some uneducated, illiterate farmer for simply not believing he exists...is so stupid as to refute any logic. Doesn't god have better things to do?

    And what about evil? It's STUPID! Why would god let one of his angels rebel against him? Let me guess, did he not see it coming? No, the god of your religion must have known Lucifer would rebel against him. He knew in advance. Thus, the only logical existence for Satan in Christianity is that god wanted the devil. That is the only logical explanation.

    One last thing. The existence of hell has done a lot more for Christianity than the existence of heaven. Christianity scares people into believing it. Christianity paralyzes logic, clouds the minds of the masses with fear, all to pollute the weak-minded with stupid tales.

    Religion has no place in a modern, logical mind.

    Turning your sacred cows into steak.
    "Reality is for people who can't cope with drugs" - Robin Williams
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Christians must have penis envy. And by penis, I mean Islam.

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    Molten Ash Jon1's Avatar
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    Good, I'm glad that "most Christians" are smart enough to ignore at least SOME of the bible. The facts are the facts, the bible states beyond ANY DOUBT that the earth is around 6,000 years old. If you choose not to believe this, then you are picking and choosing which parts of the bible you believe in.
    Untrue, genesis states this implicitly. Did you read the link I gave about Augustine?

    Please, instead of posting links, tell me in your OWN words, what is wrong with my summary of your religion?
    There's no point in writing long paragraphs when I can simply post a link.

    The bible says Mary was a virgin. Are you saying that it's possible the bible may be wrong?
    No.

    Don't you see, the whole "Jesus" story is one giant allusion to the ancient practice of slaughtering animals to cleanse one's cosmic sin tab. A gruesome and barbaric religious practice, and your beloved Jesus is just another sheep in this barbaric ritual.
    Not going to bother with this one.

    This forum is not intended as a place to lazily refer to other media sources to make your arguments. How about you make an argument in your own words instead of expecting me to watch some youtube article? The burden of countering my claims is on you.
    Would you rather watch a youtube video than read five pages of my writing?


    I assert that you CANNOT logically believe in evolution, while also believing in the bible. The bible CLEARLY states that evolution cannot be true, by logical deduction of other biblical claims (such as the biblical age of the earth, which would deny evolution).

    Complete nonsense. You hate links, but you should watch this:
    Christian, Evolutionist, or Both? (Alvin Plantinga) - YouTube


    So, what is it? Do you believe the bible or do you believe in evolution?
    You have not read my links, though they were short and neat. Instead you made several unfounded assertions and attacked my links, which save time for me and you. If I don't see any improvement, I will not respond.


  9. #9
    Staunch Gaytheist Night's Avatar
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    Jon1, if you refuse to type your position in your own words, simply tell me so. It is lazy to depend on the writing of others to make your points for you.

    My main argument with you is this. The bible says the earth is around 6,000 years old. That would completely falsify the theory of evolution, if true. There is a ton of proof showing the earth is much older than 6,000 years old. Thus, your infallible word of god is WRONG.

    If you disagree, please explain yourself, and do not depend on others to make your arguments for you.

    Turning your sacred cows into steak.
    "Reality is for people who can't cope with drugs" - Robin Williams
    Quote Quote by: arX View Post
    Christians must have penis envy. And by penis, I mean Islam.

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    Hot Lava iolo's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Night View Post
    Jon1, if you refuse to type your position in your own words, simply tell me so. It is lazy to depend on the writing of others to make your points for you.

    My main argument with you is this. The bible says the earth is around 6,000 years old. That would completely falsify the theory of evolution, if true. There is a ton of proof showing the earth is much older than 6,000 years old. Thus, your infallible word of god is WRONG.

    If you disagree, please explain yourself, and do not depend on others to make your arguments for you.
    You are not talking about Christianity, surely, but a ludicrous literalist heresy about 100 years old? Until I was thirty I'd never ever heard of Christians who believed anything so unlikely.


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    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    "Young Earth-ers" are still among us, as mentioned in this article linked to in another thread...

    Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth” creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

    Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”

    This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”
    Dinosaur Shocker | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine



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  12. #12
    Molten Ash Jon1's Avatar
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    Night, I do not understand your refusal to check my links. Nor does it seem that you've read what I wrote (for example, I already responded to the allegation of being lazy), though I wrote only few paragraphs.

    My previous link is half an hour long, how long would it take for me to write what took half an hour to say? An hour, two, more?

    Until you read, and watch my links, you're simply too uniformed for a proper not-million-words-long discussion. When you do your part, please message me,but only until then.
    :)


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