Are atheists good without god?

[highfidelity]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs? Some people think that respect for others is the kindergarten lesson of moral principles. The first step on the road to being good for goodness sake.

Since many atheists are also humanists, is it hypocritical of them to show such a lack of respect for their fellow human beings? Does it reveal a fundamentalist type of arrogance to have such certainty that they are the only ones who are right, so they are justified in ridiculing the opinions of theists?

[FriedrichSeneca]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs?

I am polite, in "real" life. I won't seek to debunk random theists at the restaurant or at the grocery store. I won't go at my local church to be a heckler. I keep that for debate forums: that's the place for it.

[Jack]

I am polite, in "real" life. I won't seek to debunk random theists at the restaurant or at the grocery store. I won't go at my local church to be a heckler. I keep that for debate forums: that's the place for it.

Same here. I also have never gone door-to-door trying to convert others to my way of thinking. I almost never bother to challenge a Christian when they make some rude remark in my presence about my beliefs, assuming as they usually do that everyone agrees with theirs. I have never stood on a street corner proclaiming the virtues of atheism while denouncing everyone that passes as sinful and in need of salvation from Christianity. I'm not one to protest when I see Christian billboards or bus signs. I've never asked bookstores to remove the Bible from their shelves. I don't tell children that Christians are evil and should be avoided whenever possible. I wouldn't consider it proper for atheists to band together and waste millions of dollars that could be put to better, humanitarian uses, building a shrine to our stance on the gods. And I have never once complained to Volconvo management about the many misstatements, false characterizations and downright lies that Christians have posted here about atheists. I will however directly challenge those who post such things, as that's what the forum is for.

[NoJingoLingo]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs? Some people think that respect for others is the kindergarten lesson of moral principles. The first step on the road to being good for goodness sake.

In general I treat everyone I meet in the "real world" with civility and politeness. But you have to understand that I do not wish to follow their dogma or the tenets of their religion and *they* seek to impose those things on me without my consent or despite my disagreement. I see no evidence for the existence of their god and view their holy book as nothing more than a collection of fables. Since I find much of their dogma violent, hypocritical, contradictory and harmful why would I even want to follow it?

Since many atheists are also humanists, is it hypocritical of them to show such a lack of respect for their fellow human beings? Does it reveal a fundamentalist type of arrogance to have such certainty that they are the only ones who are right, so they are justified in ridiculing the opinions of theists?

From my POV it's the religious that are hypocritical and it's the arrogance from the religious I find distasteful, you know, since I'm called a devil worshiper/under the control of evil/sinful and in need of salvation simply because they say so.

[Maryjane]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs?

So many of them? Do you mean online or in real life? For the most part, in real life, we don't disclose we have a difference of opinion. In a lot of cases it's not safe to do so. We let them think we are theists. FWIW...Most of our real life friends and family members are theists.

[hwyangel]

Yes. Atheists are good without God. In fact we can expect many non-believers to be kinder, wiser or more generous than we are. Fundamentalisim in christianity is a false doctrine. But being "good" will not get you to heaven. If we had the ability to earn heaven then Jesus died for nothing.

[Charos]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs? Some people think that respect for others is the kindergarten lesson of moral principles. The first step on the road to being good for goodness sake.

Since many atheists are also humanists, is it hypocritical of them to show such a lack of respect for their fellow human beings? Does it reveal a fundamentalist type of arrogance to have such certainty that they are the only ones who are right, so they are justified in ridiculing the opinions of theists?

Let's keep in mind the difference between an Implicit atheist, Explicit atheist, Hard atheist, Soft atheist and (what you're describing) ANTItheist...antitheists tend to see religion in and of itself as intrinsically harmful, they'll work to try to not only prove there is no god positively (like an explicit-hard atheist), but see the belief in God as fundamentally damaging to the individual or society as a whole. I used to maybe fit in this category, when I left Christianity I lashed back at it rather hard, shocking my grandparents by wearing Cannibal Corpse and Deicide shirts, as time has gone on I've sat down and read as many holy texts as I could find, (Internet Sacred Text Archive Home being a major godsend) and have since mellowed in regards to my views. I can understand and respect the belief without holding it, which unfortunately few can, on BOTH sides, I've had as much snarkiness from Christians as most Christians have from us. People fear difference, even ideological...

[ozzie666]

antitheists tend to see religion in and of itself as intrinsically harmful, they'll work to try to not only prove there is no god positively, but see the belief in God as fundamentally damaging to the individual or society as a whole... when I left Christianity I lashed back at it rather hard

i'd have to agree with charos in this respect. when i figured out what, to me, is real, i lashed out bigtime for being forced into something that in retrospect has been only harmful to my life.

I also have never gone door-to-door trying to convert others to my way of thinking. I almost never bother to challenge a Christian when they make some rude remark in my presence about my beliefs, assuming as they usually do that everyone agrees with theirs. I have never stood on a street corner proclaiming the virtues of atheism while denouncing everyone that passes as sinful and in need of salvation from Christianity. I'm not one to protest when I see Christian billboards or bus signs. I've never asked bookstores to remove the Bible from their shelves. I don't tell children that Christians are evil and should be avoided whenever possible. I wouldn't consider it proper for atheists to band together and waste millions of dollars that could be put to better, humanitarian uses, building a shrine to our stance on the gods. And I have never once complained to Volconvo management about the many misstatements, false characterizations and downright lies that Christians have posted here about atheists.

and see this is a statement of fact. these things did happen, do happen and will continue to be done. atheism will never go this far.

now according to the OP, apparently atheists are offensive, arrogant and have the moral depth of a kindergartner. im guessing theists think we are arrogant because we claim to know better, but offensive? the paragraph that i've quoted from jack has no offensive bearing in it whatsoever. it is a statement of truth. how many theists would be offended by it i wonder?

you call me (yes i say me because although you've stated "atheists", its obviously a personal attack... lol!) arrogant, offensive, hypocrtical and whatever other negative words you wish and yet... we're the ones who's "goodness" is being questioned?

where's your sense of humanitarianism?

[hwyangel]

One thing to keep in mind also. There is reason why atheists care about something they don't believe exists. God wants to make himself known and we should be careful. We could be in company with angels.

[Jack]

One thing to keep in mind also. There is reason why atheists care about something they don't believe exists. God wants to make himself known and we should be careful. We could be in company with angels.

If that thought makes you happy, good deal. Personally I don't buy it. We could be in the company of leprechauns. I could live my life totally paranoid that every god was real so I have to be careful not to offend any of them.

It's much more logical and much less complicated to accept that some, not all, atheists like to debate theology because it's a challenge, because we don't appreciate the assumption that Christianity (at least in this country) is assumed to be valid strictly based on its popularity. We like to champion logic, common sense and clear thinking. We find it worthwhile to defend reality. Some people feel it's worthwhile to challenge conspiracy theories. Personally I find it much less frustrating to challenge theology. Trying to talk sense to conspiracy theorists is like trying to explain calculas to my dog.

[Praxius]

If atheists are "good without god", why is it that such a large proportion of them seem incapable of extending the most basic politeness and civility towards theists whose opinions differ from theirs? Some people think that respect for others is the kindergarten lesson of moral principles. The first step on the road to being good for goodness sake.

(my first post in a long while....)

I personally believe there is a form of existence after this life we live.... but I do not believe in a single super being, such as God, who is running the whole show...... so whether or not that makes me an atheist or not, I'll let others determine that. I grew up Roman Catholic but dropped out of the religion around the age of 19-20 due to many many reasons I won't get into now, since it doesn't really have anything to do with the topic.

Now, while I have my own views and while I don't believe or practice any of the popular religions out there today and while I don't believe in a God..... I don't go around shoving my finger in the faces of those who do. If they believe their religious teachings and if they want to live their life a certain way, by all means.... it's your life and I can respect that.

I've have/had friends who believe all sorts of things I don't and I don't think of them any less because of it..... but they are/were my friends because they didn't constantly shove their beliefs in my face as if they were obligated to save my soul or something.

Respect is earned when respect is given. I can get into a civil and mature debate with someone who has different beliefs than my own, and we can challenge each others views without getting petty...... but when someone comes up to me and starts shoving their beliefs in my face as if they know better than I, when they start telling me I'm going to hell because of what I say, do or believe, when they basically try and make me feel like some lower form of human being..... the gloves come off and I'll tell them exactly what I think of them, their beliefs and where they can go with them.

I, with my personal beliefs, reflect the attitude given to me. If you talk to me in an honest and mature manner, with an open mind to what I am saying, then I respond in the same manner. You don't have to agree with me, but at least avoid getting on a higher horse.

Since many atheists are also humanists, is it hypocritical of them to show such a lack of respect for their fellow human beings? Does it reveal a fundamentalist type of arrogance to have such certainty that they are the only ones who are right, so they are justified in ridiculing the opinions of theists?

The problem lies in generalizations.... some atheists will generalize all religious people as being the same, using the worst case examples in that group to justify their position...... but at the same time, some religious people will generalize all atheist in much the same fashion & use the worst case examples in their group.

In my observations, you're kind of doing the same thing by generalizing all ahteists.

There are bad apples in every batch, but generalizing the entire group based on those bad apples will only create more arguments and more divisions that are not needed.

I don't have issues with religious people in general or what they believe or practice...... but I do have issues with the pushy religious people who try and meddle in your personal affairs as if it's their "God Given" right and obligation to do so...... those people when I come across them, do not show respect to me or my own beliefs..... so why should I?

[hwyangel]

Values are nothing more (or less) than the beliefs of a person or social group in which they have an emotional investment either for or against something. Note that values are beliefs. And beliefs are almost always religious. When people speak about beliefs they usually intend to reference ultimate concerns such as the origins and/or the purpose of the
world or of humanity, etc. And the concern is not merely to delve into the past, but to chart a course for the present. This is only to say that people are guided by their beliefs