God doesn't want me!

[Peter]

We've all heard that the evidence of the Christian Gods existence is all around us waiting to be "seen." Lots of people like me look around and see nothing but natural processes and random chance. Billions more look around and see evidence of Allah or Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. All these billions are doomed to eternal death, or eternal hellfire depending on who you ask.

Let's assume for a moment that the Christian God really does exist. He knows (omniscient) exactly what it would take to convince me and all the other billions that He exists and He's surely capable of convincing me (omnipotent) and everyone else but He doesn't. Why not? Why does the Christian God withhold eternal salvation from billions of people around the world by not making the effort to convince each and every one of His existence and message?

I'm sure you've all heard the typical Christian reasoning that if He revealed Himself unambiguously to the entire world we would all become "robots" and our free will would be subverted. They must be thinking it would take God surfing down from heaven on a wave of light accompanied by a 1000 piece orchestra of angels. I'm thinking it wouldn't take anything so overt. How many Christians that you know of were only convinced when they talked to a burning bush for instance. One?

Most Christians are convinced by nothing more than a chance occurance or a spectacular scene while on a hike in the woods. In other words, God should easily be able to convince everyone on Earth of His existence, each in their own private way. No angelic orchestra or lightboard required. So why doesn't He?

The most obvious answer is that He doesn't exist but let's approach this as if He does exist and is at this moment watching me write this post. What is He thinking, why isn't He convincing me right now that He exists? Doesn't He love me enough? Doesn't He want me?

[Charlatan]

I would say that Jesus was the revelation. He performed miracles, built a following, formed a church out of those, and so forth. Maybe god doesn't love you because he made you and you question him? Maybe god does love you but you reject him. If he sent his son, and you have heard my words, then there is your evidence.

What is a human being other than someone that dwells on questions? Idle hands are the devils playthings it has been said. Now what good has come of idle hands except self gratification? Sounding rebellious or clever at questioning god at all turns is something in our nature. All it takes is one person at the funeral to denounce the departed, and the devil got that from rich men and respected men who wanted more. They wanted to sound clever and rebellious to impress everybody, and they do. The problem is that they want to impress their ideas onto others, they can go to hell, god doesn't love them.

Think of yourself peter... Did you write this thread to impress people with your logic? That is why we all write threads, go to a physcologist or whatever and ask them, I am sure they will agree with me.

[Rex]

Well they day religious fanatics are qualified to make psychological evaluations is a sad one [because they are mostly delusional]

The most common answer I get, when asking similar questions, is “He does show himself, in the word of God, that's your proof dummy!"

To which I ask, of course, how do you know the Bible is really the word of God? "Because the bible is infallible- because God wrote it..." You can see where it goes from here...

If anyone should seek psychological help it wouldn’t need to be people asking honest questions. It would be the ones who condemn and ridicule others for not believing what they do.

[Peter]

The most common answer I get, when asking similar questions, is “He does show himself, in the word of God, that's your proof dummy!"

To which I ask, of course, how do you know the Bible is really the word of God? "Because the bible is infallible- because God wrote it..." You can see where it goes from here...

Yes, circular reasoning is common to most religions but Christians just revel in it.

Why doesn't God speak to me? He could wait until I'm alone and then in the booming voice from the 10 Commandments movie he could tell me to believe in Him and devote the rest of my life to converting people. Can't He do that? It wouldn't even have to be out loud. It could just be in my head.

I'm really getting tired of capitalizing He and Him so much.

[Jack]

He knows (omniscient) exactly what it would take to convince me and all the other billions that He exists and He's surely capable of convincing me (omnipotent) and everyone else but He doesn't. Why not?

I'm going with the "ego gratification" concept I alluded to in another thread. The Christian god is portrayed in the book all about him as having a pathological need to be loved, admired and adulated. How much more gratifying to his ego it must be when that love and adulation is given freely in the face of a massive amount of evidence that he doesn't even exist?

[Peter]

I'm going with the "ego gratification" concept I alluded to in another thread. The Christian god is portrayed in the book all about him as having a pathological need to be loved, admired and adulated.

No doubt about that Jack.

How much more gratifying to his ego it must be when that love and adulation is given freely in the face of a massive amount of evidence that he doesn't even exist?

Yes, I can see that. He would value love and adulation easily obtained over that obtained by some effort of his. Maybe he only goes after the "low hanging fruit" of love and adulation. Only the most credulous at first and then slowly working his way up the skepticism ladder. If that's the case I won't be holding my breath for any "sign" from the big guy any time soon!

[Jack]

If that's the case I won't be holding my breath for any "sign" from the big guy any time soon!

Good, because I suspect your conclusion in the OP is correct. He doesn't want you. Why worry about a few of us hard-to-convince types when he's already got millions around the world giving him so much ego stroking it would embarrass a humble god.

[Dismay]

Well I wouldn't say he wouldn't want you his intentions would be far more malevolent. An omniscient deity would know exactly what you would be upon your creation and yet he created you to suffer to toil in hell for eternity. God in this sense quite simply a sadist, he has the ability to solve doubt and end pain but he doesn't. So either god doesn't give a damn(in which case why create us in the first place?) or he enjoys the suffering the pain and the weeping... Are we but his little toys?

[ozzie666]

to me, this thread and the questions being raised in it, is evidence enough to question god. just the simple question of "has god ever spoken specifically to you?" is to hard for many to answer, because the obvious answer is no (and getting a theist to admit that is almost impossible to achieve by the way) and because, with that knowledge the entire religion is flawed.

you no the whole "god speaks to me through this" "if you truly know your god" "ask god about it". god doesn't speak, noone knows anything about him, and you cant speak to him. well you can but its a terribly one sided conversation.

[Anguspure]

Which god are you speaking of? I know that the god of this world is absolutely hysterical that he's got you in his clutches. He definitely wants you. But if you ever feel like a change:

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)

[highfidelity]

[QUOTE]

The most obvious answer is that He doesn't exist but let's approach this as if He does exist

Good idea. Let's keep a totally open mind about it. Not rule out any possibilities before they have been thoroughly investigated.

and is at this moment watching me write this post.

He's omniscient, so logically that must be possible. But just because he can do it, doesn't mean he will do it. God is conscious and has free will. He knows what you're thinking too, if he listens. Knows everything, that's omniscient.

What is He thinking,

Just another guy who want's to know the mind of God. Well, why do you want to know? That'd be my first question.

why isn't He convincing me right now that He exists?

He must choose not to. He knows he exists, you're the one with the problem.

Doesn't He love me enough? Doesn't He want me?

God is self sufficient and has no need of anything external. He is absolute, perfect and complete. He loves everyone without exception and without regard to anything they do, anything they say etc.

He must choose not to interfere with what you choose to do with your life. Maybe he thinks you're capable of making your own decisions. Just like you are conscious, have a personality, have free will - so does god.

[Jack]

Not rule out any possibilities before they have been thoroughly investigated.

Why then the presumption of the Christian god? Let's approach this from the presumption that any of the gods humans worship might exist. We would need to quit saying "He" since some gods are women and some are non-human in form. Nor should we presume that "God is self sufficient and has no need of anything external. He is absolute, perfect and complete. He loves everyone without exception and without regard to anything they do, anything they say etc." since not all gods are like this.

Just another guy who want's to know the mind of God.

Isn't that what the Bible is supposed to reveal to Christians, the Qur'an to Muslims and the Gita/Veda to Hindus? Doesn't it presume to know the mind of god in saying, "He must choose not to. He knows he exists...He must choose not to interfere..."?

God is self sufficient and has no need of anything external.

Then why did he give humans the laws of the Old Testament, violations of which were punishable by death, and why does he require humans to worship him alone (Exodus 20:3)? Why does god demand love and obedience? Why did god bother to create humans?