God doesn't want me!

[Madshadows]

Truth can never be hidden in Gods written word, even though men have altered parts to fit doctrine.

Never??? If truth can never be hidden how can it not be seen? I understand that you can see it but if it is a truth why can all not see as you? Truth is obvious and unambigious. It begs no argument or interpretation. Men cannot alter a god's truth, surely.

[Ozzy]

I am exercising my free will to not follow god like you are exercising your free will not to fly. That's the point you see, unless a god reveals himself there is no free will choice to be made here!

Are you seriously saying that I can fly if I just choose to? No, I think your point made is meant to be more philosophical than that. We have free will. We are not robots. I have the free will to turn away from God, but I choose not to, for too many reasons to list. If God were to reveal Himself to you, and you were to see Him in all of His glory, do you think you would then still not believe? Seriously Peter, if a "being" poofed into someon'es home one night and it was obvious that He was God - the Creator of Everything, they would instantly believe in Him. That would not be a free will choice of that person. There would be no act of faith. They would be a robot, who had no choice but to believe. No?

[Jack]

...if a "being" poofed into someon'es home one night and it was obvious that He was God - the Creator of Everything, they would instantly believe in Him. That would not be a free will choice of that person. There would be no act of faith. They would be a robot, who had no choice but to believe. No?

No. I could refuse to believe what I was seeing. I could let him know that after reading the Bible I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't deserve my obedience, love or adoration. I could go insane and start laughing hysterically. A god merely appearing in the flesh and claiming to be a god is no guarantee of belief. Another aspect to this. Since god in the Bible does appear to humans on more than one occasion does that imply that those humans became robots after that? Should their testimony be discredited since they must have been turned into robots? Were the apostles, men who claimed to have seen god in the flesh of his son, turned into mindless robots by the experience? This "robot" concept has been overplayed by theists without the full implications of it having been considered. There are still Doubting Thomases in the world. Too bad there isn't a Jesus to provide them a wound to touch. Perhaps we'd be the ones to follow in his footsteps and proclaim him to the modern equivalents of the Parthian Empire and India if there were.

[kjw47]

Never??? If truth can never be hidden how can it not be seen? I understand that you can see it but if it is a truth why can all not see as you? Truth is obvious and unambigious. It begs no argument or interpretation. Men cannot alter a god's truth, surely.

They can alter word meanings as they have done, many greek words had 4-5 different meanings--example the same greek word used as worship to God meant obesiance to a king, so the trinitarian translators used the word worship to Jesus when it should have been obesiance to the King. Trying to fit their false trinity god teaching-- but Jesus clearly stated that he has a God-rev 3:12-- Gods word even said the angels were trying to peer into truths-they could not see them clearly--- But Jesus appointed the Faithful slave( lead teachers ) to give food ( spiritual ) at the proper time( when God willed a truth known) The 1 single religion has these teachers appointed by Jesus--They stand out above all the rest claiming to be christian.

[Ozzy]

No. I could refuse to believe what I was seeing...

I'll try to clarify what I mean. If some "thing" appeared before you and you RECOGNIZED "it" as "God-the-maker-of-all-things-visible-and-invisible" according to whatever standards you put upon this "thing," you don't think you would finally believe in this "thing?" Your heart is so hardened that you could not believe under any circumstances?

[Jack]

Your heart is so hardened that you could not believe under any circumstances?

I didn't say that. I said that being convinced of the reality of a god is no guarantee I'd worship, love and adore that god. And since that's what theists claim god wants from us he would have failed in his mission. BTW-I once did believe in god, I was an ardent and completely believing Christian. I was a youth pastor, a CCD teacher and left the Army with a letter of introduction to USD as a candidate for the seminary there. My lack of belief started to manifest itself before I could enroll. I have believed, I no longer believe.

[Anguspure]

example the same greek word used as worship to God meant obesiance to a king, so the trinitarian translators used the word worship to Jesus when it should have been obesiance to the King. Trying to fit their false trinity god teaching-- but Jesus clearly stated that he has a God-rev 3:12

And a judge may still be referred to as "your worship". Does this make the judge divine in your understanding? Or is your understanding of the biblical use of the verb "to worship" lacking?

[Anguspure]

I didn't say that. I said that being convinced of the reality of a god is no guarantee I'd worship, love and adore that god.

How true.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
James 2:19 (NIV)

[kjw47]

And a judge may still be referred to as "your worship". Does this make the judge divine in your understanding? Or is your understanding of the biblical use of the verb "to worship" lacking?

The trinitarian translators misused the word worship to Jesus trying to make people believe that he is 1/3 of a God. along with the Father-1/3-the HS-1/3--- But it is undisputable fact that Moses,David,Solomon,Daniel,Job,etc all served the true God-they served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah) -- the same God Jesus was taught the first 30 years he attended the synagogues-he never refuted it. You may say your worship about a judge but i surely would not--And the bible writers didnt use the word worship for Jesus either--the word is obesiance--Jesus is the appointed king for 1000 years. They made many errors like that.

[Peter]

Are you seriously saying that I can fly if I just choose to? No, I think your point made is meant to be more philosophical than that.

Hi. The simple point is do you make a free will choice to not fly? It's really no choice at all is it. It's the same with an apparently nonexistent god.

We have free will.

That's very debatable.

We are not robots. I have the free will to turn away from God, but I choose not to, for too many reasons to list.

So god has revealed himself to you. Gratz.

If God were to reveal Himself to you, and you were to see Him in all of His glory, do you think you would then still not believe? Seriously Peter, if a "being" poofed into someon'es home one night and it was obvious that He was God - the Creator of Everything, they would instantly believe in Him. That would not be a free will choice of that person. There would be no act of faith. They would be a robot, who had no choice but to believe. No?

I was under the impression that it took more than just acknowledging the existence (believing in) of god to be saved. I thought you actually had to accept him as savior or some such nonsense. If god revealed himself to me I'd have about a thousand stern questions for him and I doubt very seriously that I'd accept him or follow him to even the corner store. So, I'm very confused about all this talk of robots and everyone turning into one if god parachuted into the stadium at superbowl halftime. Maybe I'm just made of stronger stuff than most but I definitely wouldn't turn all "robot".

[Peter]

Jesus is the appointed king for 1000 years.

Uh oh, times up!

[Eclipse_]

Thats right, eternally destroyed, as in completely obliterated never ever to even be remembered. Only the "smoke" of the destruction, viewed with horror and disgust, will remain as a reminder of where humanity should not return to.
How does this imply eternal life for those who reject Him?

So you suggest that hell is not conscious torment for eternity?

“The devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet also were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

"... and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the oly angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who whorhip the beast and his image..."

I'm really getting conscious and eternal from this.

The Human expression of God in Jesus offers you his own death, free of any obligation as a substitute for your own death. lf you openly and actively (confession and baptism) accept His offer then you have accepted the gift that is yours and you to can have the hope of resurrection to life.

Well, fine, then I'm a terrible person for not accepting his gift. If God thinks that's a good enough reason to send me to hell, fine.
But what about the people who know nothing about his gift. They can't accept it.

You display lack of insight and wisdom.

I agree with you that I lack wisdom and insight on many subjects, that's one of the reasons that I visit forums like these; to learn.

I have heard this sort of thing said by little children about their "cruel and unfair" parents, but as they grow older, perspective changes and wisdom might increase.
These same children are now just as "cruel and unfair" as their loving parents.

But you can see your parents, you know they exist. They will tell you what is wrong and what is right and for which reasons (and no reason like 'I work in mysterious ways'). You love and trust them, but in a way, they 'earned' it, since they give advice, feed you, take care of you...
And there's a big difference between condemning someone to eternal torment (or immediate destruction, if you will) and not letting your child watch tv for a week.
You wouldn't accept a grave, physical punishment from someone you don't even know, without any kind of justification either, I suppose.