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Thread: Jesus is Michael the archangel

  1. #13
    Ain't no sunshine... Sean989's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47 View Post
    Moses wrote the book of Genesis-He used the word Elohim-he knew far better its meaning than anyone nowadays-yet it is fact- he served a single being mono God.
    No other religion ever made the claim because no other religion has Jesus. Jesus comes with the archangels voice because it is his voice--or do you think he needed to borrow the voice?? ( Daniel 12:4,10 explains certain matters.
    Elohim is plural and considered a mistranslation (in some cases deliberate) in modern day religion.

    I am not going to argue the wither to of what religion has Jesus or God. What I will say is there is significant writings of Jesus and none relate him to the Archangel. If you interpret the passage differently could it not be that an Archangel (maybe Micheal, possible Gabriel) introduces his arrival?

    I didn't suggest Jesus would have to borrow anything then again I cannot see anyone denying Jesus.
    'SOLUM CERTUM NIBIL ESE CERTI, ET HOMINE NIBIL MISERIUS AUT SUPERBIUS'

  2. #14
    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: ozzie666 View Post
    generally in christian belief, there are 9 realms of angel's. in ascending order they are: angels, archangels, principalities, powers,virtues, dominions, orphanim, cherubim, seraphim. michael the archangel was considered somewhat a warrior-general of the 12 archs. there is never any suggestion or evidence to say that jesus, the son of god, is the same or related to michael the archangel. the bible states the opposite in fact.

    Revelation 12: 7-8 "and there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought the dragon, and the dragon fought the angels to no prevail"
    Revelation 14: 10 "will themselves drink Gods wine, the wine of his fury, which he has poured at full strength into the cup of his anger. all who do this will be tormented in fire and sulfur before the holy angels and the Lamb

    and if you think the title 'lamb' needs some justification, turn to any page in any christian bible and youll most likely see that 'lamb' or 'the word' is always relative to 'jesus'. he was the lamb, he was the word, he was also the word of the lamb. he was apparently many things. depends on what you believe. I, on the other hand, do not believe in any of it. i cant tell you what to believe but if you do have some form of faith, you've certainly got your facts mixed up.

    There is but 1 archangel listed in Gods written word-- Michael- the chief of the angels.

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    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47
    There is but 1 archangel listed in Gods written word-- Michael- the chief of the angels
    in all the infomation ive read on angels, i've never once heard of there being just 1 archangel. ive read a minimum of 3 all the way through to there ebing 12, but never just 1. your right in saying he is chief but he's not the only one. i cant see how one can make such an absolute claim, with no support of it, and it be so far from any other opinion in doing so. heres the first 3 links from a quick "archangel" google search

    Seven Archangels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Archangel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Introduction to Archangels

  4. #16
    Igneous Magma
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    actually now that i look at it a bit closer, it seems the Jews came up with the idea of 7 archangels originally. so apparently, jesus own people disagree with you.

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    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: ozzie666 View Post
    actually now that i look at it a bit closer, it seems the Jews came up with the idea of 7 archangels originally. so apparently, jesus own people disagree with you.


    There are 66 books in Gods written word recognized as the true bible-- 1 archangel is ever mentioned in those 66 books-- Michael.

  6. #18
    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    kjw47, it would be appreciated if someday you were to provide a source for your many statements presented as factual or acknowledge that you are only presenting your personal opinions lacking in any substantiation.

    For instance:
    Moses wrote the book of Genesis...
    What, outside the Bible itself, suggests that Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch, as the Jews believe, or even just Genesis as you suggest? There are no existing original documents. There are no secondary sources that confirm the authorship of Genesis. All we have to support that notion is someone's word, someone's translation of a copy of an original source of unknown origin, someone's assumption.

    One bit of evidence against the notion that Moses authored the Pentateuch is Deuteronomy 34:5-7 in which Moses supposedly writes about his own death.


    The Forum Rules

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    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: Jack View Post
    kjw47, it would be appreciated if someday you were to provide a source for your many statements presented as factual or acknowledge that you are only presenting your personal opinions lacking in any substantiation.

    For instance:

    What, outside the Bible itself, suggests that Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch, as the Jews believe, or even just Genesis as you suggest? There are no existing original documents. There are no secondary sources that confirm the authorship of Genesis. All we have to support that notion is someone's word, someone's translation of a copy of an original source of unknown origin, someone's assumption.

    One bit of evidence against the notion that Moses authored the Pentateuch is Deuteronomy 34:5-7 in which Moses supposedly writes about his own death.


    The Holy spirit guides the truth into existence when God wills truth to be known. Faith obviously plays an everyday part in ones life concerning the things of God.

  8. #20
    Sapere Aude Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47 View Post
    The Holy spirit guides the truth into existence when God wills truth to be known. Faith obviously plays an everyday part in ones life concerning the things of God.
    That's a poor excuse for failing to support one's opinions. It's also an excuse I'm under no obligation to respect.


    The Forum Rules

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    [John F. Kennedy]
    The principal value of debate lies in the development of logical thought processes, and the ability to articulate your positions publicly.
    [Senator Dick Clark of Iowa]
    The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
    [Terry Pratchett]

  9. #21
    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47
    There are 66 books in Gods written word recognized as the true bible-- 1 archangel is ever mentioned in those 66 books-- Michael.
    i am in total agreement with jack. where is any evidence to support any of these claims?

    and i guess in Daniel 8: 15-27, which is titled "The Angel Gabriel Explains the Vision" or in Luke 1: 26-27 - "In the sixth month of Elizabeths pregnancy God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth" basically to deliver the message to Mary of the coming birth of christ, doesn't count for anything?

    did you even look at this link?

    Introduction to Archangels

    it is just a webpage but it labels more than 7 archangels and every bit of information about them. again, dont just randomly submit a reply as truth based on your personal opinion. please supply sufficient research and evidence to support your claims.

  10. #22
    Igneous Magma
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47
    No other religion ever made the claim because no other religion has Jesus
    when you say no other religion has jesus, do you mean no other than catholicism, anglican, lutheran, islam, judaism, jehova's witnesses or mormon?

    The True Call - ISLAM - The Status of Jesus in Islam

    What religions think about Jesus Christ

  11. #23
    2 Pi R Round Cup of Java's Avatar
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    The archangel is superior to the other angels-he is the chief angel,the chief prince.-- one thing is certain-- catholocism translators erred in translating from greek to english( some greek words had 4-5 different meanings ) ( like worship to God or obesiance to a King was the same greek word ) ( not on purpose ) but because centuries earlier at the pagan false god worshipping king lead councils, lies became their truth, and the translators didnt know better- They altered the word of God to try and make it look like a trinity god existed, but God would not let them hide the truth--Jesus said-John 17:1-6--the Father is the only true God--Paul taught 1 cor 8:6-- There is one God to all the Father. that is real truth so is this-Psalm 83:18-and this rev 3:12
    I fail to see how this refutes Hebrews 1:4-14. This isn’t a Trinity discussion; all Christians believe there is one God, BTW.

    There are Greek words that have no equivalent meaning in English (holds true with many languages, in fact), true, but I am speaking of Hebrews 1:4-14 precisely, not the Bible as a whole. Contextualization will provide the meaning of the words.

    Chief angel?

    Heb 2:7 "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;”

    The bible also says we judge the angels.

    1 cor 6:4 Do you not know that we will judge angels?

    … but because centuries earlier at the pagan false god worshipping king lead councils, lies became their truth, and the translators didnt know better- They altered the word of God to try and make it look like a trinity god existed, but God would not let them hide the truth.
    Can you be more specific in the timelines, and provide proof for this claim?

  12. #24
    2 Pi R Round Cup of Java's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: kjw47 View Post
    There are 66 books in Gods written word recognized as the true bible-- 1 archangel is ever mentioned in those 66 books-- Michael.
    Who originally recognized/affirmed these books as the cannon? It surely wasn't the JW or the watchtower society.

    Secondly, if the translators had it wrong for 1800 years, then the JW's had it wrong as well because they originally utilized the KJV Bible before they created their own translation (NWT).

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