When it comes to "the children" we are all a bunch of hypocrits

[RVonse]

As a society we seem to have a fetish when it comes to the welfare of "the children". For example, take a look at some of the laws in the U.S. Theres now a data base set up for sexual crimes so that everyone knows who they are. Our next door neighbor could have murdered someone and we likely would never know, but if this person comitted a sex crime against a minor he is marked on this public list. We go to unbelievable heights to make sure our tv progamming is censored so that "the children" won't see Janet Jacksons boobs. If a man is late on child support we make this civil offense into a crime and put him in jail.....

So then why is it that we as a society don't give a rats ass about the future of our children in terms of global warming and clean abundant energy? And in the case of the U.S., we seem to care not a rip as to whether we borrow money from our children.

Could it be that we really don't give a shit about the children after all?

What do you guys think?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: RVonse As a society we seem to have a fetish when it comes to the welfare of "the children". For example, take a look at some of the laws in the U.S. Theres now a data base set up for sexual crimes so that everyone knows who they are. Our next door neighbor could have murdered someone and we likely would never know, but if this person comitted a sex crime against a minor he is marked on this public list. We go to unbelievable heights to make sure our tv progamming is censored so that "the children" won't see Janet Jacksons boobs. If a man is late on child support we make this civil offense into a crime and put him in jail..... So then why is it that we as a society don't give a rats ass about the future of our children in terms of global warming and clean abundant energy? And in the case of the U.S., we seem to care not a rip as to whether we borrow money from our children. Could it be that we really don't give a shit about the children after all? What do you guys think?

I totally agree, we as a nation seem to overlook many things that threaten our children, and more so our great grandchildren, while concentrating on just a few things that make us mad for moral reasons. We have no webpage that is well known that shows all the CEO that threaten the future of our children with industrial polution, or those in politics who create taxes for the next generation to pay back, just so we can have "no new taxes" our self. No webpage of photos of those who really are stockpiling nukes or generating nuclear waste. And other thing that might rape our children their rights to a future that is safe, happy, and bright, such a future has be aborted by our very lack of concern for those children, here and yet to be.

Oh, we got a photo of Saddam for his WMDs and so everyone knows the "one offender" - but as it turns out he should not even be on the list.

No taboo for bombs, only for boobs. One is for blowing infants apart, the other used to nurse infants. Football violence okay, but cheerleaders, please cover up. For the children????

Well, i think i like your post, thanks for bringing up the topic.

[Scribbler1]

If this country gave a damn about the following generations they wouldn't saddle it with astronomical debt.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Scribbler1 If this country gave a damn about the following generations they wouldn't saddle it with astronomical debt.

[sarcasm]Or perhaps even attempting get swimming pools out of the hands of private citizens.[/sarcasm]


[irony]That is what is really killing our children, private swimming pools.[/irony]


This society has many conflicting desires, and customs.


Go ahead, and try to make sense of it if you dare, but it will likely only lead to more questions than answers. Perhaps all science is similar in that manor, but studying the clinically insane ( Americans in genneral ) never really seems to resolve anything.


“Americans are now certifiably insane. They are crazy. They are suffering a mass psychosis. They have lost their own ability to discern right from wrong.”
-Joseph Farah. editor of WorldNetDaily, 1999-Apr-12

[grandpa]

If the people cared about their children they would

a. Stop brainwashing them
b. Organize and reject all institutions of tyranny, coercion and exploitation

Until that happens, children will just be future checking accounts and credit histories.

Grandpa h.

[Osborn F Enready]

I don't have children, so I am CLEARLY not a hypocrite.

I am not trying to support the STATE raising kids, or STATE teaching kids, or STATE reforming kids, or STATE monitoring of kids........

I don't have a kid. So, having an UNJADED vision about kids, I can see that the state is trying to take responsibility for the kids, because parents don't accept their responsibilities as parents.

The problem is the nanny-state parents, not the kids. Perhaps the bigger problem is the KIDS raised by nanny-state parents. Both of them are a result of the same problem. Nanny-statism.

[brien]

Quote by: RVonse As a society we seem to have a fetish when it comes to the welfare of "the children". For example, take a look at some of the laws in the U.S. Theres now a data base set up for sexual crimes so that everyone knows who they are. Our next door neighbor could have murdered someone and we likely would never know, but if this person comitted a sex crime against a minor he is marked on this public list. We go to unbelievable heights to make sure our tv progamming is censored so that "the children" won't see Janet Jacksons boobs. If a man is late on child support we make this civil offense into a crime and put him in jail..... So then why is it that we as a society don't give a rats ass about the future of our children in terms of global warming and clean abundant energy? And in the case of the U.S., we seem to care not a rip as to whether we borrow money from our children. Could it be that we really don't give a shit about the children after all? What do you guys think?

I think the politicians only "care" about children when it suits their agenda. They play them like the pied piper's flute and all of the lemmings march to the tune right over the edge of the cliff.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I don't have children, so I am CLEARLY not a hypocrite. I am not trying to support the STATE raising kids, or STATE teaching kids, or STATE reforming kids, or STATE monitoring of kids........ I don't have a kid. So, having an UNJADED vision about kids, I can see that the state is trying to take responsibility for the kids, because parents don't accept their responsibilities as parents. The problem is the nanny-state parents, not the kids. Perhaps the bigger problem is the KIDS raised by nanny-state parents. Both of them are a result of the same problem. Nanny-statism.

It's not as though all public school teachers ar bad. In high school I actually liked most teachers better than the students. The problem is that children learn by example, and most parents simply don't teach their children critical thinking skills.
I seriously think all existing schools, public or private, would become much better if parents actually were more active in them. If they spent less time watching ESPN and more time educting themselves and their children, I think it might improve things dramatically.

Grandpa h.

[Boetie]

Osborn posts: I don't have children, so I am CLEARLY not a hypocrite.

Osborn,

Just because you are not a biological father of a biological child doesn't mean you are not a hypocrite. You are still part of the political process that will have an impact on the future of this nation.

Currently we are simultaneously cutting taxes and spending in a way that has never been done in the past.

Wouldn't you be angery if you were born in a time when you have to pay taxes all your life and not get a damn thing out of it and I mean not a damn thing. Wouldn't you be angry if you realize the reason you are working all your life for nothing was because you have to pay off the spending spree your predecessor engaged in? Wouldn't you feel pissed off that you have to pay off a war that your predecessor got into and to throw salt into the wound it turns out the reason your predecessor got into war was to amuse a 20 year career drunken frat boy?

Yeah you would be a hypocrite if you left the future a pile of nothing.

My post isn't to say you are a hypocrite because you may very well have done what you could for the future. My post is only to show that just because one doesn't have children doesn't mean one is relieved from the responsiblity as to what state you left this nation for the children when they take over.

[Athena]

Quote by: grandpa It's not as though all public school teachers ar bad. In high school I actually liked most teachers better than the students. The problem is that children learn by example, and most parents simply don't teach their children critical thinking skills. I seriously think all existing schools, public or private, would become much better if parents actually were more active in them. If they spent less time watching ESPN and more time educting themselves and their children, I think it might improve things dramatically. Grandpa h.

Thank you!!!

Most parents don't have a clue what critical thinking skills are. People can not teach what they do not know. Further more, I have been discussing child rearing on another forum, and there is the impression that we should cater to our children, and let them be free to choose what they want. We no longer preparing children for adulthood, and some want to treat child as adults in court, because they don't know the difference between a child and an adult. This all belongs in another thread, but who would participate in a discussion of the ramifications of replacing liberal education with education for technology, the difference between preparing citizens or products for industry? It has everything to do with why homosexual marriages is a political issue, and what Reagan did to embed us in mid east struggles is no where near as interesting.

Critical thinking and preparation for adulthood, is essential to a population that chooses to watch programs about global warming, instead of popular TV. People are not trained to think, nor taught that it is the responsibility of self governing people to be informed, but they love responding to things that trigger them emotionally.

Does everyone subscrib to Corpwatch? How about Power and Interest News Report? How many are choosing the Public Broadcasting Channel instead of popular TV? Instead of complaining about what isn't being done, how about doing it? Volcano is excellent and it can be better. We can all be intentionally using this format for increasing awareness. Many more than the members read what we are writing. How well are we doing? I love the Internet! It truly separates us from the past dependency on leaders. How do we make the best of what we have?

[Athena]

Quote by: Scribbler1 If this country gave a damn about the following generations they wouldn't saddle it with astronomical debt.

In the 1920's a newspaper article warned, "Given our known oil supplies and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war."

Who is "this country"? Why have US citizens believed we have all the oil we need in our own country? Why did they believe Reagan when he said we do not have to conserve oil, and vote Carter out of office? Carter told us the truth and had unleashed the efforts to develop alternative energy, while Reagan took us further down the path of economic disaster and war. Yet Carter remains unpopular and Reagan is almost worshipped. Why?
We have had avoidable mass ignorance since the 1920's, who is responsible for this?

:) I remember when we were encouraged to buy electical appliances. It was like electricity is an unlimited supply and of course we should make our lives better by filling our homes with electrical devices. Now how are we to supply this unlimited demand for energy to the whole world? It is a good thing to "industrialize" the whole world, right? The whole world should be just like us, right? I remember a college professor saying because our ability to produce and adjust is unlimited, we don't need to worry about population increase. Come on we are so fantasic, we can do anything we determine to do and we do not need to think in terms of limits. Right?

[Osborn F Enready]

Boetie said: Just because you are not a biological father of a biological child doesn't mean you are not a hypocrite. You are still part of the political process that will have an impact on the future of this nation.

I say:
You are right, and at every single CHANCE, I have voted against public education, tax increases, more government programs, government interference. I vote, but I no longer pay taxes, since I no longer work. (as of now) My contribution to the criminal regime has ended.

Boetie said: My post is only to show that just because one doesn't have children doesn't mean one is relieved from the responsiblity as to what state you left this nation for the children when they take over.

I say:
My only responsibility from this day forward is to provoke people to wake up, and prepare for the obviously near revolt. I will still vote, until voting is no longer possible due to revolt and or tyranny.
The facts are now clear, the data is all in, the lies have all been exposed, and still people refuse to admit what is happening.

I will say this:

I will be leaving society for the wilderness on the first official declarations of:
FORCED innoculation of any kind.
FORCED government interference of any kind.
FORCED compliance of any law or act that violates my rights under the Constitution.
FORCED to be quarrantined, corralled or sealed in by federal or state authorities.
FORCED to participate in any action that I do not support, nor approve of. (draft)
FORCED out of the market for arms and or ammunition, or food supplies.

The gloves have come off, and government is declaring war against its own citizens once any of the above take place.

The problem is:

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”
-Thomas Jefferson

WE have, and now we are finding that...

“Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it.”
-Thomas Paine, Rights of Man ("Conclusion")

As a result, we see that....

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”
-Dresden James

“We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.”
-George Orwell

“In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
-George Orwell

But sometimes simply TELLING THE TRUTH, is not enough if the sheeple are at a level of ignorance most Americans have reached about their OWN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, and their actions.

“To ignore the evidence, and hope that it cannot be true, is more an evidence of mental illness.”
-William Blase

“Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men.”
-Thomas Henry Huxley (1825 - 1895)

“One of the shrewdest ways for human predators to conquer their stronger victims is to steadily convince them with propaganda that they're still free...”
-Dr. N.A. Scott

“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
-Johann Von Goethe

And it is at this time, that the wise men rise and say to the sheeple, "wake up my fellow citizens, the time for action is now." Each citizen has a different stake in the game, and each one will wait until their "personal" lines have been crossed, causing a staggered, non-coordinated result.

That is why wise men must now start supplying, stocking and training for the inevitable, which grows nearer each day.

The armed populace of America is larger than ANY armed force in the world, alone or combined. They must wake up, or they will be culled like the sheep they are being raised and conditioned to be by the government they entrust to look out for their best intrests.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Athena Quote by: Scribbler1 If this country gave a damn about the following generations they wouldn't saddle it with astronomical debt. In the 1920's a newspaper article warned, "Given our known oil supplies and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war." Who is "this country"? Why have US citizens believed we have all the oil we need in our own country? Why did they believe Reagan when he said we do not have to conserve oil, and vote Carter out of office? Carter told us the truth and had unleashed the efforts to develop alternative energy, while Reagan took us further down the path of economic disaster and war. Yet Carter remains unpopular and Reagan is almost worshipped. Why? We have had avoidable mass ignorance since the 1920's, who is responsible for this? :) I remember when we were encouraged to buy electical appliances. It was like electricity is an unlimited supply and of course we should make our lives better by filling our homes with electrical devices. Now how are we to supply this unlimited demand for energy to the whole world? It is a good thing to "industrialize" the whole world, right? The whole world should be just like us, right? I remember a college professor saying because our ability to produce and adjust is unlimited, we don't need to worry about population increase. Come on we are so fantasic, we can do anything we determine to do and we do not need to think in terms of limits. Right?

That's all well and good, but I was talking about DEBT. Did you mean to reply to someone else?

And I won't bother asking for a link to that article you reference.

[PatrickHenry]

Not all of us are hypocrites. Some of us rear our children to think for themselves and we protest against government coercion. We want to keep a clean environment for our descendants and try to stop the SuitMonsters from their tyranny. You are just ranting RV. I have no problem with a website that tracks the whereabouts of sex-predators, who are known as a group to have a very high recidivism rate. Propaganda is a much bigger problem, IMO.

I will grant you that we inhabit a system that is hypocritical, with platitudes about democracy while the financial predators roast peoples flesh for their profit.

I wonder if my foster daughter thinks I am a hypocrite...

[RVonse]

Thanks for all the discussion I appreciate the diversity of viewpoints here, it helps

A little off topic here but I would like to bring up yet another hypocrit example of how our justice and political system seems to be insane. Lets say an expectant woman is driving to an abortion clinic but she gets killed by a drunk driver. As I understand it, the drunk driver will be charged with a double vehicular homicide. One charge for the mother and one charge for her baby fetus. OTOH, if the woman would have somehow made it to the abortion clinic the removal of the "fetus" would be just fine and dandy under our laws, no crime whatsoever. This makes absolutely no sense to me at all! No matter how anyone feels about abortion I would expect our courts to treat the death of the fetus consistantly under the law regardless of who caused its death. Are some people in our society sanctioned for killing a fetus yet others are not? IMO it should either be a crime to terminate the fetus or not regardless of who does the terminating. After all, is it not the same result to the fetus?

Can someone please explain to me how our laws got to be so fucked up? Or am I missing something?

[Scribbler1]

The way I see it, charging double homicide in such a situation is the political way of throwing a bone to the pro lifers without having to look like they're trashing Roe. It's just playing both sides to avoid totally alienating either.

It's also worth noting that these same lawmakers will make speeches to the pro lifers saying life begins at conception but a pregnant woman can't declare the fetus a dependent on her taxes until it's BORN.

[Osborn F Enready]

RVonse said: Can someone please explain to me how our laws got to be so fucked up?

I say:
Sure.

Examine when the rolls changed for the branches of government (contradictory to that of the Constitution) as well as when the "rights of incorporation" were changed to empower corporations with the same rights as an individual, without the responsibility of an individual.

THERE is your answer to HOW our laws got so messed up.

[underbear1]

I'll speak for the gay/lesbian kids, the same right for lifers who wouldn't dream of aborting a fetus, will toss their queer youths on the street to fend for themselves from 13 years old. They will outlaw ALL youth programs in schools, just so they can bar gay/straight alliance groups.Cuz God forbid, a generation could be raised of non self loathing gays, or a generation of straight kids who like their gay friends just as they are.

[carriew]

only in some states can it be a double homicide. not all. even if the mom is 1 day away from delivering in some states it is only a single homicide. and if the mother survives its only assult not murder at all. I can find links if you like.

http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/T...ims/index.html

[Athena]

Quote by: Scribbler1 That's all well and good, but I was talking about DEBT. Did you mean to reply to someone else? And I won't bother asking for a link to that article you reference.

Ah, there is a connection between oil and debt.

I could not give you the link if you asked for it. I used to microfilm 1920-1930 newspapers for the University of Oregon, and was fascinated by news article and relating cartoons about sky rocketing gasoline prices, because the same thing was causing the 1970 recession. You will just have to take my word it. We did look into our supply of oil and rate of consumption, and knew we could not produce oil fast enough to keep up with world demand. We were not just supplying ourselves, but the whole world, and the more the world wanted, the less oil citizens of the US had, so the more they had to pay. This is so related to why Iran wants nuclear power. Oil was our largest export and biggest revenue. The nation benefitted greatly by exporting a lot of oil, but the rising price had a back lash effect on all industrial economies.

Now to the debt issue. When we were exporting oil, our gross national product went up and so did the value of the dollar. Now we are importing oil, and this means money is going out instead of in, and this lowers the value of the dollar. This has everything to do with banking and interest rates. Oil money has always gone into our banking system. It meant we had a lot of money to loan to other countries and this became another source of revenue, increasing our GNP. When a nation is wealthy, it can do a lot without inccurring debt, and this is no longer true. We have lost the revenue and are going into debt, which weakens the value of the dollar, and this can become a huge banking problem, devastating Wall Street, and whole economy. You know 1930 Depression devastation, only this time, we don't have the mineral resources to rebuild our economy. Our military defense of the resources we need is more important today, than ever before, so our military expense is greater than it ever was. We are moving from a wealthy nation to a debtor nation, and there is no return short of some miracle technology.

We love low interest rates. However, all those oil rich nations that were using our banks because of the stable dollar and higher interest rate, are not benefiting from our low interest rates, and if the dollar weakens much more, they may withdraw their money. When banks don't have money for loans, things get real bad, as they did in the 1970 recession, which was the result of an oil shortage, and bad banking investments in third world countries. This lead to Reagan telling us we don't have to conserve, and then slashing domestic budgets, increasing problems like homelessness, and then pouring what was left of our national wealth into military spending and esclating war conditions in the mid east. It cost us a lot to send our navy to the Persian gulf and keep it there to maintain control of the region, and here comes your debt. This is what took Rome down, only instead of the resource backing the currency being oil, it was gold. Rome exhausted its source of gold and the economic problem eventually consumed Rome. When a nation must depend on its military for its resoures and income, this starts to eat up the country.

This is what will leave our children without government services but with a huge debt. It all goes back to understanding what oil has to do with all of this, and the terrible national leadership that we have had all these years, that brings us to this. Every citizen should have been aware of these things since the original research made it clear, that hanging our economy on a finite resources leads to economic disaster and war. Unfortunately, this was vital information left out of education, so we became as lemmings rushing over the cliff. Our leadership knew this and Reagan lied to us.