If Israel goes to war with Iran should we join in?

[Athena]

Shrike Darling, you are right and I was wrong. Thanks for motivating me to get more information.

I was researching the Trojan nuclear plant in Oregon, when I came across this information. It is the site I was thinking about when I said the US provided Israel with military weapons.


Quote:
http://www.thepeoplesvoic..._horse_of_nuc_1

Depleted uranium weapons were first given by the US to Israel for use under US supervision in the 1973 Sinai war against the Arabs. Since then the US has tested, manufactured, and sold depleted uranium weapons systems to 29 countries. An international taboo prevented their use until 1991, when the US broke the taboo and used them for the first time, on the battlefields of Iraq and Kuwait



It is very hard getting information about how Israel became a nuclear power and perhaps this sites helps us understand why; this man has been persued and imprisoned by Israel for telling what he knows.........


Quote:
http://www.democracynow.o...04/08/18/136217
Mordechai Vanunu worked as a nuclear technician at Dimona, Israel's secret nuclear installation from 1976 to 1985. He worked there at a time when Israel was insisting it would not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East. What Vanunu discovered is that Israel had secretly developed an extensive nuclear program, hiding its existence from the Israeli people and parliament, and the world.



But despite most sites being about Iran or Iraq, I did find the following explanation of how Israel became a nuclear power, and you are right, the US didn't directly give Israel nuclear power, just the rest of Europe, and the help Israel needed came from France, after it got what it needed for the US. And here again we might understand why Israel does not trust Iran, because they were not to be trusted, so how could they trust anyone else, right? Thank you for motivating to me to get this information, but I don't think it helps your position, as much as it helps Iran's argument for pursuing nuclear weapons.


Quote:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/Israel's_Nuclear%20Weapons.html
Birth of the Israeli Bomb
The Israeli nuclear program began in the late 1940s under the direction of Ernst David Bergmann, "the father of the Israeli bomb," who in 1952 established the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission. It was France, however, which provided the bulk of early nuclear assistance to Israel culminating in construction of Dimona, a heavy water moderated, natural uranium reactor and plutonium reprocessing factory situated near Bersheeba in the Negev Desert. Israel had been an active participant in the French Nuclear weapons program from its inception, providing critical technical expertise, and the Israeli nuclear program can be seen as an extension of this earlier collaboration. Dimona went on line in 1964 and plutonium reprocessing began shortly thereafter. Despite various Israeli claims that Dimona was "a manganese plant, or a textile factory," the extreme security measures employed told a far different story. In 1967, Israel shot down one of their own Mirage fighters that approached too close to Dimona and in 1973 shot down a Lybian civilian airliner which strayed off course, killing 104.(3) There is substantial credible speculation that Israel may have exploded at least one, and perhaps several, nuclear devices in the mid 1960s in the Negev near the Israeli-Egyptian border, and that it participated actively in French nuclear tests in Algeria.(4) By the time of the "Yom Kippur War" in 1973, Israel possessed an arsenal of perhaps several dozen deliverable atomic bombs and went on full nuclear alert.(5

________________________

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Technosoul Read Daniel - that is a lot of reading ya know. Which verse or chapter? And then I might be able to respond in the negative or affrimitive. Perhap someone can post the particular parts of Daniel that some feel might be a prediction. As we know Bush and (back then Reagan) were aware of those passages and might be influenced by them (so that is in keeping with this topic and not just "preaching"). That would give some insight into what is going on..

sorry, I got the books mixed up. the prophecy I was thinking about comes from Ezekiel. here are some prophecies concerning Israel and the war with Iran:

Eze 38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,


Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,


Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:


Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:


Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:


Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:


Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.


who are the people mentioned in this prophecy? here is a list of the modern day names of these areas:


Magog--Iran, Iraq, Minor Asia.

Meshech--From East Iran to the India Mountains.

Tuval--China

Cush--Ethiopia

Put--Maybe Sahara

Gomer--Minor Asia and Iran

Gomerites--Slavs and Francs

Togorama--Tajikistan

Shva--Near the Indus River

Dedan--India

Tarshish--Tirsus in Qiliqya

the Bible doesn't say HOW they are all involved, just that they are involved. this could mean that they lend weapons and food and other types of aid like that. the Bible also says that many other peoples will be involved, and with the insanely complicated diplomatic relations in the world, that is quite possible.

[westcoastdog]

Senior P. Henry,

Although you have a lot of opinions on the Middle East, you apparently haven't read much history. Tsk. Tsk. You can find the answer with Google. Hint: the massacres predated 1948.

George Orwell said the most difficult things to perceive were the obvious. Athena is convinced that Israel need foreign help to develop its nuclear bombs, although North Korea, Pakistan and India were able to accomplish it without help. While Israel did not require technical help, it did need uranium and this was provide by France and other countries. Plutonium is a byproduct of nuclear power plants, and this is the type of atomic bomb Israel and North Korea have produced.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: dthmstr254 Quote by: Technosoul Read Daniel - that is a lot of reading ya know. Which verse or chapter? And then I might be able to respond in the negative or affrimitive. Perhap someone can post the particular parts of Daniel that some feel might be a prediction. As we know Bush and (back then Reagan) were aware of those passages and might be influenced by them (so that is in keeping with this topic and not just "preaching"). That would give some insight into what is going on.. sorry, I got the books mixed up. the prophecy I was thinking about comes from Ezekiel. here are some prophecies concerning Israel and the war with Iran: Eze 38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee. Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. who are the people mentioned in this prophecy? here is a list of the modern day names of these areas: Magog--Iran, Iraq, Minor Asia. Meshech--From East Iran to the India Mountains. Tuval--China Cush--Ethiopia Put--Maybe Sahara Gomer--Minor Asia and Iran Gomerites--Slavs and Francs Togorama--Tajikistan Shva--Near the Indus River Dedan--India Tarshish--Tirsus in Qiliqya the Bible doesn't say HOW they are all involved, just that they are involved. this could mean that they lend weapons and food and other types of aid like that. the Bible also says that many other peoples will be involved, and with the insanely complicated diplomatic relations in the world, that is quite possible.

And we would take for granted that Gog is Israel.

Not sure what kind of real estate map was used by the writers of the Old Testiment that would pin point the land of Israel.

What nation to the north is currently going to also attack Israel? Is it the bear - USSR? That was what people thought back in the 1950s.

Do you think that old prediction has influenced President Bush or other Presidents of the USA relative to our policy of support for Gog? Do we as a Christain nature percieve modern Iran, Iraq, and even China as "the bad guys" who will be on the wrong side for that doomsday battle? is our "image" of most Arabs tanted by our belief in that biblical text? Does Bush believe that we are at that particular "moment in history" that MUST BE anyway, out of faith in an interpretation that all things are now proving that the Bible is right, in his opinion. Is that a wise thing to do?

IS this whole Irag, Iran, Palestinian war about fullfilling a Biblical prediction? How come President Bush did not make that clear to the UN, the Congress, and the USA population, instead of making up all those other "reasons"? Surely a good fundamentalist such as Bush would have had those predictions on his mind - being that is a major core place of their teachings.

Or is Gog really America, the promised land that Moses was seeking but never found? Hmm?

Well, has Israel "become a thorn in the side of every nation"? Is the "world war" that Israel is hinting at really "it". A final chapter for human history as we know it? Could be, or then again, just a big misstake based on something akin to mythology.

No wonder the arabs do not like Christians that support that Jewish prediction. Not the best way to make friends.

I know for one fact that many of the people who voted for Bush believe in those Jewish predictions about the last days and can hardly wait til that world war involving Israel is underway, for they believe that is also the time for the rapture, and for the new era.

But some are not aware of those possible motivations for our current wars and potential wars in that area of the world - and why Korea is not important but Iran is important. But everyone should become aware of all those biblical theories about the "last days" and how that relates to our poltical stand in the middle east. Insight into this historical momentum towards a biblical doomsday and a war of many nations towards the Jewish nation would help them comprehend some of the motives that are behind President Bush's "rush to judgement" policy making.

It is not for me to state if the Bible was properly interpreted or not. Other posters can state their own opinions about that aspect. Thanks for posting the the verse and chapters requested.

[bishop]

damn... talk about going off-topic.. there's even bible quotes..


"If Israel goes to war with Iran should we join in?"


personally, it doesn't make a difference if israel attacks iran or we do.. the result/response will be the same.. iran will swarm into iraq and launch missiles into israel.. israel will jump into the fray, hamas will go on the aggressive, israel will respond and then syria will engage.. and who knows what the russians and/or chinese would do..

there is no other logical outcome if either israel or the u.s. attacked iran imo..

the ONLY questions that matter in this analysis is whether/not iran really is approaching nuclear capability and whether/not they would actually engage in nuclear war or blackmail... i'm not certain of the answer to that, but i don't trust the global establishment (and the u.s.'s) either.

[westcoastdog]

There will be no war. There will be no war. Hot air, yes. Posturing, yes. Israel could defeat Hamas and Syria with one hand tied behind its back. Ahmadinejad does not run the show in Iran; he is their Bill O'Reilly. Furthermore, the Iran economy is struggling, and their weaponry could not equip a couple U.S. divisions. Suicide bombers is the only Iranian military advantage.

Bush43 won't take any military action against Iran because the U.S. military is worn down and overextended. It will be years before Iran will have nukes, and Bush43 will leave the problem to the next president. Allegedly, North Korea has nukes, and they don't keep him awake.

Should the U.S. help Israel if attacked? First, there will be no attack, just harassment, more of the same. The worst event for the U.S. in the Middle East is a military victory by extremist Muslims, a victory that would ignite Muslim violence from Africa to Indonesia.

[bishop]

it's one thing to be able to win in a direct military-to-military war, but it's folly to ignore the guerrilla tactics that the muslims would employ - tactics which have proven to be effective. you can win the head to head military fights, but end up losing to the guerrillas. saddam made sure that we'd have a difficult time occupying the country when he emptied his prisons and gave everyone weapons.

as for iran... iran has already shown that it is capable of much more than providing suicide bombers. iran equips and finances palestinian jihadis, and does the same in iraq.. it has enough ability to suck us in to a quagmire even more unwinnable as iraq has become. i agree that we probably won't attack them while bush is in office, but i'm not about to minimize the damage iran would be able to mete out.

and, i'm also very uncomfortable making assumptions about what the bush administration will end up doing.. on one hand, there's your logic pointing out our overextension, etc., etc... on the other, there's the possibility that little nero doesn't think anyone else in the future would have the balls to "solve the problem".. one thing that is clear to me is that the international community (including russia and china) won't really force iran to abandon its program - and i don't think we're about to permit iran to develop nukes... and since he has nothing more to achieve, he could attack if he wanted to - doesn't even need to consult congress either.

[jose]

Quote by: westcoastdog Senior Jose, You flunked current events and history and apparently don't read any real newspapers--NY Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, etc. Ever since he was elected, Ahmadinejad has been making threats against Israel. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/15/wo...=1&oref=slogin http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=55856

just as i bet you dont read Spanish newspapers
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=55856 who is telling this tale?
Tanter was also a professor of Political Science at the Univ. of Michigan for many years, and it is curious that this doesn't feature in the official biography for the principals of the IPC. At the Univ. of Michigan he was renowned for his pro-Israeli stance, and teaching history/politics of the Middle East with a strong zionist perspective. He frequently appeared as a featured speaker at events hosted by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). In 1989, Tanter also spearheaded attempts to expunge student journalists who were critical of Israel and US foreign policy from the student newspaper, the Michigan Daily.
Affiliations
AIPAC [Source: Benson, op. cit.]
Anti-Defamation League [Source: Benson, op. cit.]
B'nai B'rith [Source: Benson, op. cit.]
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Raymond_Tanter

A lie repeated 5 million times is still not the truth
Iran's President Threatens Israel with Annihilation, According to the Iran Policy Committee
you can´t find link to the President of Iran saying ¨we will wipe israel off the map can you?

what was said ¨He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.¨ http://www.president.ir/eng/ahmadine...index-e.htm#b3

[westcoastdog]

Someone said he found only a few websites for: Iran threatens Israel. These are websites that contain all three words, and the vast majority of the websites are about Iran threatening Israel.

Web Results 1 - 30 of about 5,120,000 English pages for Iran threatens Israel



WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS
Iran threatens strike
against U.S., Israel
Official warns of pre-emptive attack on enemies if imminent danger
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=40045


July 26, 2004
Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map, again
JERUSALEM POST: Iran threatens to wipe Israel off map, again

http://www.command-post.org/nk/2_archives/013876.html

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today echoed his earlier threats to "wipe Israel off the map" by telling a mass demonstration in Tehran, commemorating the 27th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, that Palestinians and "other nations" will remove Israel from the region...http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48790

Jose, I don't understand your position. Are you denying that Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the planet? If you Google 'Ahmadinejad threatens Israel' (no parens), there are 556,000 websites.

Bishop, Israel has survived four wars and two Intifadas. They will survive because they are fighting for their homes. The U.S. willl abandon Iraq sooner or later because it's their turf, not ours.

[PatrickHenry]

World Net Daily :rolleyes:

[westcoastdog]

For Senior P. Henry,

Ahmadinejad, who in October said arch-enemy Israel should be "wiped off the map" http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...28DDB96A18.htm

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Technosoul And we would take for granted that Gog is Israel.

Gog refers to the leader of the armies. "Gog OF Magog." I don't see Israel being OF Iran,

Not sure what kind of real estate map was used by the writers of the Old Testiment that would pin point the land of Israel. What nation to the north is currently going to also attack Israel? Is it the bear - USSR? That was what people thought back in the 1950s.

they are involved. they might not be attacking, but Iran is using Russian-made weapons. they have been supplied with weapons from Russia for a while now. here is a small list of googled sites for them:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Russia-Iran nuclear deal signedRussia and Iran have signed an agreement for Moscow to supply fuel to Iran's new nuclear reactor in Bushehr. Under the deal Iran has to return spent nuclear ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4301889.stm


BBC NEWS | Europe | Germany 'breaks Iran supply ring'Prosecutors said seven men, mostly of Russian origin, were suspected or ... "Its main business is the supply of Iran's nuclear programme," Mr Welfens said. ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4850770.stm


Russia to supply Iran uranium - OpinionsRussia to supply Iran uranium, ... Russia and Iran signed a nuclear fuel supply deal despite all diplomatic efforts made by the European Union and the ...
www.ucfnews.com/news/2005/02/28/ Opinions/Russia.To.Supply.Iran.Uranium-878943.shtml


WISE NC: RUSSIA TO SUPPLY IRAN WITH NUCLEAR FUELWISE NC 438.4337; Russia has signed an agreement to supply Iran with nuclear fuel for a controversial nuclear power plant in southern Iran, Russian Atomic ...
www.agroeco.nl/~wise/438/4337.html - 5k


The Russia JournalRussia will deliver air defense systems to Iran ... “We discussed supplies of military equipment to Iran, including the Tor M1, in the framework of ...
www.russiajournal.com/ - 50k - Apr 20, 2006

Do you think that old prediction has influenced President Bush or other Presidents of the USA relative to our policy of support for Gog? Do we as a Christain nature percieve modern Iran, Iraq, and even China as "the bad guys" who will be on the wrong side for that doomsday battle? is our "image" of most Arabs tanted by our belief in that biblical text? Does Bush believe that we are at that particular "moment in history" that MUST BE anyway, out of faith in an interpretation that all things are now proving that the Bible is right, in his opinion. Is that a wise thing to do?

actually, my image of Arabs in and of themselves is not effected by the prophecies. I choose to hate the sin and love the sinner.

IS this whole Irag, Iran, Palestinian war about fullfilling a Biblical prediction? How come President Bush did not make that clear to the UN, the Congress, and the USA population, instead of making up all those other "reasons"? Surely a good fundamentalist such as Bush would have had those predictions on his mind - being that is a major core place of their teachings.

well, to point out some other predictions that were fulfilled in our lifetimes:

Jerusalem would become an international problem
Bible passage: Zechariah 12:1-5
fulfilled: as we speak

When Israel blooms again, the Kingdom of God will be near
Bible passage: Luke 21:29-31
fulfilled: 1948

Israel will have the temple rebuilt
Bible passage: Revelation 11:1
fulfilled: in the process. Israel already has blueprints laid out and is ready to start building despite what the Hamas organization wants.

Or is Gog really America, the promised land that Moses was seeking but never found? Hmm?

not likely, America is not and was not the promised land. God promised the area they are in, and He never fails to fulfill His promises.

Well, has Israel "become a thorn in the side of every nation"? Is the "world war" that Israel is hinting at really "it". A final chapter for human history as we know it? Could be, or then again, just a big misstake based on something akin to mythology.

actually, it will be the beginning of a new chapter in human history. the seven year tribulation will begin soon after.

It is not for me to state if the Bible was properly interpreted or not. Other posters can state their own opinions about that aspect. Thanks for posting the the verse and chapters requested.

no problem. I have provided a few other verses. and here are some more

The Gospel will be preached to the entire world
Bible passage: Matthew 24:14
fulfilled: when Christians started using the internet and has been present in just about every corner of the earth since before then.

The world would be able to simultaneously witness events
Bible passage: Revelation 11:9-10
fulfilled: check out the press, internet, and other methods of rapid communication.

[jose]

your links
1 is by Aaron Klein -- he of the lopsided pro-Israel bias and the retracted article -- stated filing dispatches from Jerusalem for WorldNetDaily
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2005/wndgaza.html
2 JERUSALEM POST
3 is by joseph farah He is also a weekly columnist for the International Edition of the Jerusalem Post.
see any linked?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: bishop damn... talk about going off-topic.. there's even bible quotes.. "If Israel goes to war with Iran should we join in?" personally, it doesn't make a difference if israel attacks iran or we do.. the result/response will be the same.. iran will swarm into iraq and launch missiles into israel.. israel will jump into the fray, hamas will go on the aggressive, israel will respond and then syria will engage.. and who knows what the russians and/or chinese would do.. there is no other logical outcome if either israel or the u.s. attacked iran imo.. the ONLY questions that matter in this analysis is whether/not iran really is approaching nuclear capability and whether/not they would actually engage in nuclear war or blackmail... i'm not certain of the answer to that, but i don't trust the global establishment (and the u.s.'s) either.

Bible quotes are on-topic because they describe what is soon to come (and with the political heat in the Middle East, very soon). let's just put it this way: Bible says we are on the verge of WW3. Zechariah foreshadowed modern warfare. Zechariah 14:12
This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

Nagasaki anyone?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: jose your links 1 is by Aaron Klein -- he of the lopsided pro-Israel bias and the retracted article -- stated filing dispatches from Jerusalem for WorldNetDaily http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2005/wndgaza.html 2 JERUSALEM POST 3 is by joseph farah He is also a weekly columnist for the International Edition of the Jerusalem Post. see any link ed?

Aquí está mayor


The Russia JournalRussia will deliver air defense systems to Iran ... “We discussed supplies of military equipment to Iran, including the Tor M1, in the framework of ...
www.russiajournal.com/ - 50k - Apr 20, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


Russia agrees to supply nuke fuel to IranRussia's top nuclear official will sign a deal Saturday to supply Iran with fuel for its first nuclear reactor, an Iranian official said. ...
www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/ doc/2005-02/26/content_419668.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages


Buy or sell used cell phones,laptops,Jewellery,cars & more at ...... Home Appliances Projects, Home Supplies Projects, Industrial Supplies Projects ... Restaurant & Food Service Supplies, Store & Supermarket Supplies ...
www.erealdeal.com/ - 140k - Cached - Similar pages


Russia May Supply Iran with Modern Defense SystemRussia is ready to supply modern air defense systems to Iran." Radjab Safarov says that the top-authorities of Iran evinced great interest toward the ...
www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=78 - 25k - Cached - Similar pages


Russia to supply air defense systems to Iran -wat the hell is russia playing at? i mean hear they supply iran with nuclear tecnology and weopons, on the other hand they stop ppl going to mosque and ...
www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11043 - 80k - Apr 20, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

[jose]

Does Iran's President want Israel wiped off the map?

To raze Israel to the ground, to batter down, to destroy, to annihilate, to liquidate, to erase Israel, to wipe it off the map - this is what Iran's President demanded - at least this is what we read about or heard of at the end of October 2005. Spreading the news was very effective. This is a declaration of war they said. Obviously government and media were at one with their indignation. It goes around the world.

But let's take a closer look at what Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said. It is a merit of the 'New York Times' that they placed the complete speech at our disposal. Here's an excerpt from the publication dated 2005-10-30:
It's becoming clear. The statements of the Iranian President have been reflected by the media in a manipulated way

"In the name of the Holocaust they created a myth." We can see that this is completely different from what is published by e.g. the DPA - the massacre against the Jews is a fairy-tale. What Ahmadinejad does is not denying the Holocaust. No! It is dealing out criticism against the mendacity of the imperialistic powers who use the Holocaust to muzzle critical voices and to achieve advantages concerning the legitimization of a planned war. This is criticism against the exploitation of the Holocaust.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12790.htm

[bishop]

Quote by: westcoastdog Bishop, Israel has survived four wars and two Intifadas. They will survive because they are fighting for their homes. The U.S. willl abandon Iraq sooner or later because it's their turf, not ours.

if israel warred with syria, it's very likely that their occupation of arab territories would increase. i'm not saying that they'll be in control of damascus, but they certainly would retake palestinian territories and enlarge their dominion in lebanese lands (might even take a bite out of syria as well).. so, to go back to my previous point about guerrilla tactics, israel would have even more land to occupy - thus, more jihadis to defend against. i don't disagree that israel will still survive, but that wasn't what i was talking about.

and if someone were to attack iran, we would be leaving the region much later, rather than sooner. so long as we're dependent on oil we'll be there in some way/shape/form.

Quote by: dthmstr254 Bible quotes are on-topic because they describe what is soon to come (and with the political heat in the Middle East, very soon). let's just put it this way: Bible says we are on the verge of WW3. Zechariah foreshadowed modern warfare. Zechariah 14:12 This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

yeah... call me an intellectual, but i've never been much of a fan of analyzing political situations using literal interpretations of something written back in the stone age. that's about as deep as referencing some greek mythology to explain what the u.s. should do if israel attacked iran...

[westcoastdog]

Bishop, do you mean my annual pilgrimmages to the Oracle at Delphi have been useless, futile, and maybe stupid? But my uncle Socrates swears by it, and he's 89. And how come I've seen Rumsfeld, Cheney and even the president there sacrificing lambs? Lots of lambs!

[bishop]

heh, the more lamb the better. make sure you don't run out of applesauce either or else all the sacrifices will be for naught. and besides, the new thing is to go to mecca and throw stones at some invisible devil. just watch out for the stampedes and you'll win your salvation... getting trampled to death = eternal damnation.


see, i actually believe in god and jesus's lessons for humanity, but i'm definitely not about to read the bible literally. that's grounds for being found clinically retarded imo.

[westcoastdog]

So Senior Jose believes that Ahmadinejad is a voice of reason and moderation. He has convinced me that there are alternative universes, his and mine.