Have Americans become less patriotic?

[Technosoul]

The yellow ribbons have come down, not many people are still flying flags on their car windows.

Anti-governmental protests have taken center stage.

What is happening - have we really become less patriotic then we were a few years back?

Has the war in Iraq made us feel we are no longer the superpower we once thought we were?

Has the actions of our President shamed us into silence?

Has our patriot spirit lost all its energy?

Such would seem to be the case, but what is your opinion?

[weasel]

We're just becoming more liberal (and it's sad).

[Osborn F Enready]

We have become less patriotic overall, because more of the long history of our governments bi-partisan corruption is coming to light.

We are becoming less patriotic as we wake up the lies we have been being fed for the last 150 years.

[Jack]

A lot of the "patriotism" that followed 9/11 was convenient patriotism. Like a fad, it doesn't last. Real patriotism doesn't have to wave a flag or stick a ribbon on an SUV.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: weasel We're just becoming more liberal (and it's sad).

Liberals are not patriotc?

[bishop]

why is it that people seem to think that patriotism and militarism are synonyous?

i see a lot of patriotism, just as i did after 9/11 - which was very real patriotism imo, and not simply some fad.. the bullshit with every twit under the sun pasting flags to their foreheads is a different story though..

the difference from 9/11 to the present is that the patriotic impulse has turned inwards, towards a new percieved enemy - the bush administration. initially, bush and his fascist friends attempted to define what it meant to be patriotic - while they shoved anti-american laws like the "patriot" act down the public's throat. they did such a good job at attacking any form of dissent that they effectively castrated their main opposition (the democrats) from engaging in strong willed criticism for quite some time.

but, the administration's and republican's horrible track records are finally catching up with them. the public sees a horribly corrupt and directionless administration bleeding the country dry in both treasure and lives. the public sees an administration and party mired in scandal after scandal, lie after lie... the public isn't silent about their digust for bush and his cronies.

to be patriotic is to support your nation, your neighbors and your family - not the government, administration in power or the establishment's imperial agenda.

[Meliorative]

Patriotism is dangerous, and i see the loss of it as a very good and progressive thing. All in all, throughout history mankind has become more and more inclusive - from families to tribes to nations. Hopefully we can see ourselves as we are - people who happen to be born in different locations. People who may have been indoctrinated from birth to be a Christian, a Muslim, or a Hindu. People who by no fault of their own are Iraqi, American, or Korean.

I like this quote from Emma Goldman:

Quote by: Emma Goldman Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. Let me illustrate. Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot consider themselves nobler, better, grander, more intelligent than those living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others. The inhabitants of the other spots reason in like manner, of course, with the result that from early infancy the mind of the child is provided with blood-curdling stories about the Germans, the French, the Italians, Russians, etc. When the child has reached manhood he is thoroughly saturated with the belief that he is chosen by the Lord himself to defend his country against the attack or invasion of any foreigner. It is for that purpose that we are clamoring for a greater army and navy, more battleships and ammunition. An army and navy represent the people's toys.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready We have become less patriotic overall, because more of the long history of our governments bi-partisan corruption is coming to light. We are becoming less patriotic as we wake up the lies we have been being fed for the last 150 years.

I have to go with you on this. Between the scum in the government and the idiot sheep who PUT them there I find my patriotism (which I had always considered to be true and strong) put to the test on an almost daily basis. Sadly, I find patriotism is losing the fight.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Weasel We're just becoming more liberal (and it's sad).

Why on earth would you say that???

It couldn't possibly be that Americans are feeling betrayed and let down by a White House and Congress they'd been convinced to vote into power, cheering them into office? How does patriotism thrive when Americans are becoming increasingly convinced their leaders don't know what the hell they're doing?

Unless you're suggesting that conservatism means blind support for our (conservative) leaders, no matter how incompetent, reckless and irresponsible. In that case I would think that becoming more liberal would be a good thing.


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[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Sonart Unless you're suggesting that conservatism means blind support for our (conservative) leaders, no matter how incompetent, reckless and irresponsible. In that case I would think that becoming more liberal would be a good thing.

So true. If you go back to Thomas Paine and others like him, any reasonable person must conclude a TRUE patriot is a CRITIC, who isn't afraid to complain when he sees the government not acting in the best interests of the people. People who condemn the critics of poor government are better suited being subjects of a king or an emperor.

I suspect our friend Weasel would have been on the King's side all those years ago.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Technosoul The yellow ribbons have come down, not many people are still flying flags on their car windows. Anti-governmental protests have taken center stage. What is happening - have we really become less patriotic then we were a few years back? Has the war in Iraq made us feel we are no longer the superpower we once thought we were? Has the actions of our President shamed us into silence? Has our patriot spirit lost all its energy? Such would seem to be the case, but what is your opinion?

The ribbons etc coming down is just a matter of moving on. A society that stays stuck in the past is one that stagnates and dies. 9/11 should be remembered as the tragedy it was, of course, but it does not do to dwell.

Anti-governmental protests are not unpatriotic, they are the signs that a populace cares deeply about what it's government does and that they have such a sense of civic duty that they will get out and make themselves heard. It is the apathetic and the parasites who are unpatriotic.

To realise that your state is not an invincible behemoth does not make you unpatriotic. It simply means you are seeing past the propaganda, and have finally left that idiot dreamworld you once allowed yourself to inhabit.

The actions of your President have clearly not shamed you into silence if, as you state, there are increasing numbers of anti-government protests.

Patriotism is certainly not dead in the US, it is just not so easily manipulated by the power-hungry as it was five years ago. That is a step forward.

[phoenix_fire]

I haven't been patriotic toward the country since I was old enough to think for myself.

[Technosoul]

Perhaps we are re-inventing our perspectives. We tied ribbins to support the men fighting the war in Iraq, we still respect the troops (as long as they do not torture prisoners of war) but being a patriot no longer means we support the war for its own merits. Being partriotic ment supporting the president in a time of war so that the enemy will think we stand united, and thus strong. Now that has changed and it no longer feels so patriotic to do so, especally since the real enemy Bush was after is now on trial - namely Saddam.

And so forth

[Technosoul]

Irag might outdo Nam as the must unpopular war, when this all becomes history.

The way things are developing we will soon be aiding Israel in the next war, on Iran. (see my post in news department ).

So here is what we are looking at potentially (speculatvely).

A war with Iran - and they might even hit tagets in Israel with their missles (endangering historical holy sites). The weening war in Afganistan with Ben Laden still making public statements. The on-going war in Iraq. And a big Navy buildup around China "as a warning for them not to attack Hong Kong). Other Arab nations that do not like Israel getting involved. ( a thorn in the side of every nation) and then, as we got at least four fronts that demand our full attention, in steps some radical move on the part of Korea hoping to take advantage of the fact our military is so spread out to cover so much all at once. Not to mention a non-violent rush on our boarders from Mexico. Plus giving attention to potential sleeper cells here within the USA as well as those lone wackos.

All at once - not sure if I even want to think about it.

[samsara15]

Is patriotism rightly considered a virtue? Our side / nation / team / city over everyone else? I doubt it. It seems to me that we should first of all be human beings, then members of our family. Loyalty to the state / nation should be less than than loyalty to the human race.

[bishop]

i'd like to see some source (or something) showing that patriotism used to mean supporting the president in a time of war...

our country's original "patriots" didn't have any president to support - and we all call them patriots (as they called themselves).. you look up the definition of patriotism and it means "love of and devotion to one's country"...

i'm not about to have shits like bush and his merry band of idiots tell me that in order to be patriotic, that i have to support whatever war he wages in our name.

[PatrickHenry]

What's patriotic about stealing elections, waste and fraud with the people's money and lying a superpower into a cowardly war?

If this is America, then screw it. I'll be an unpatriot...

[Peter-Tiger]

I'm new to this board and my only hope is you would learn to appreciate my contributions to the discussions that I choose to participate in. My only wish is that if you choose to respond to my posts, you will do so in a thoughtful and honest manner.


I think that majority of the American people are finally realizing that while it may be possible to win the war in Iraq, the emerging powers in Asia are poised to "shock and awe" the bajeezus out of our pocketbooks. It is correct to say that most Americans are not dumb - they are just slow to think about the consequences of their flag-waving-yellow-ribbon-tying-god-bless-the-usa sorry act. Now that the American people have finally realized that a bigger bat is about to hit us in the head, it is time to focus on other issues -how 'bout dem illegal aliens?

There was nothing patriotic about inflicting painful and lasting injuries to a nation of people who had nothing to do with 9/11 or other terror acts against this country. The fist pumping and high-fiving idiots in the this administration that led this country to war should be and must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (unless W has been busy pre-signing presidential pardons to save his cohorts). What really amazes me is the lack of outrage by the American people - the founding fathers of this country would have hung those that brought so much missery to so much people in such a diabilical manner. Maybe we confused patriotism with evil-making.

Peter-Tiger

[Technosoul]

Quote by: bishop i'd like to see some source (or something) showing that patriotism used to mean supporting the president in a time of war... our country's original "patriots" didn't have any president to support - and we all call them patriots (as they called themselves).. you look up the definition of patriotism and it means "love of and devotion to one's country"... i'm not about to have shits like bush and his merry band of idiots tell me that in order to be patriotic, that i have to support whatever war he wages in our name.

Well, I for one was not suggesting that "supporting any President during a time of war" would be the dictionary meaning for Patriot - but as I recall that was the attitude being expressed shortly after the 9-11 incident. Perhaps from the older saying "United we stand, divided we fall".

[abub]

Quote by: Peter-Tiger What really amazes me is the lack of outrage by the American people - the founding fathers of this country would have hung those that brought so much missery to so much people in such a diabilical manner. Maybe we confused patriotism with evil-making.

lol. Our "founding fathers" were guilty of inflicting an extraordinary amount of misery upon the Native Americans.