The fiction of capital punishment

[westcoastdog]

Since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976, there have been approximately 600,000 homicides, about 20,000 annually. Since 1977, when executions resumed, the 1000th execution occurred on December 2, 2005. This means a murderer has less than a 1% chance of facing execution. A reasonable person would conclude that capital punishment is more fiction than fact.

Who are the ones executed? As usual, the underclass, the poor, and, according to one study, the ugly. When I was in high school in the 50s, my social science teacher informed us that California has never executed a rich man, and 50 years later, his observation is still true. Because of his wealth, I knew that O.J. would have never been sentenced to death if he were found guilty. Has a rich person ever been executed for murder in your state? In any state?

BTW, life imprisonment is far cheaper than capital punishment. Reason: prison guards are a lot cheaper than lawyers.

Since so few murderers are executed, I suggest we abandon the fiction of capital punishment, as most of the modern nations of world. 99+% already die of other causes.

.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Quote by: westcoastdog Since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976, there have been approximately 600,000 homicides, about 20,000 annually. Since 1977, when executions resumed, the 1000th execution occurred on December 2, 2005. This means a murderer has less than a 1% chance of facing execution. A reasonable person would conclude that capital punishment is more fiction than fact. Who are the ones executed? As usual, the underclass, the poor, and, according to one study, the ugly. When I was in high school in the 50s, my social science teacher informed us that California has never executed a rich man, and 50 years later, his observation is still true. Because of his wealth, I knew that O.J. would have never been sentenced to death if he were found guilty. Has a rich person ever been executed for murder in your state? In any state? BTW, life imprisonment is far cheaper than capital punishment. Reason: prison guards are a lot cheaper than lawyers. Since so few murderers are executed, I suggest we abandon the fiction of capital punishment, as most of the modern nations of world. 99+% already die of other causes. .

To answer your question on rich people, i do not know how many rich men/women in my state have been executed.

But I am more curious to hear if you support real captial punishment, or just hate the whole thing bc it now rests as fictional.

[westcoastdog]

With our system of jurisprudence and the right to due process (appeals and appeals and appeals), I don't think the rate of executions is going to change significantly. Even if executions increase by 100%, then only 2% of murderers will receive capital punishment.

DNA has exonerated a disturbing percentage of convicted murderers. Do you remember the Republican governor of Illinois suspended executions because so many on death row were found innocent?

Too many people are convicted erroneously, and too few actually receive the death penalty, so my position is to dispense with capital punishment. A collateral benefit would be saving many millions of dollars each year. An attorney friend mine specializes in death penalty appeals and he is paid by the state; he lives quite comfortably. I think we should make him find a new line of work.

[bishop]

i want to see dna testing as a requirement for being able to serve the death penalty... and, i'd also like to see it imposed on child molestors..

[westcoastdog]

Although I'm a member of the ACLU, I think all males should have their DNA on file. The ACLU would fight tooth and nail to oppose this requirement, but the incidence of rape and perhaps other violent crimes would fall dramatically. All a woman would have to do is scratch her assailant, and his DNA would be under her finger nails.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: westcoastdog Since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976, there have been approximately 600,000 homicides, about 20,000 annually. Since 1977, when executions resumed, the 1000th execution occurred on December 2, 2005. This means a murderer has less than a 1% chance of facing execution. A reasonable person would conclude that capital punishment is more fiction than fact. Who are the ones executed? As usual, the underclass, the poor, and, according to one study, the ugly. When I was in high school in the 50s, my social science teacher informed us that California has never executed a rich man, and 50 years later, his observation is still true. Because of his wealth, I knew that O.J. would have never been sentenced to death if he were found guilty. Has a rich person ever been executed for murder in your state? In any state? BTW, life imprisonment is far cheaper than capital punishment. Reason: prison guards are a lot cheaper than lawyers. Since so few murderers are executed, I suggest we abandon the fiction of capital punishment, as most of the modern nations of world. 99+% already die of other causes. .

It may surprise you to find out that I actually agree with you here. As you say, trial lawyers are significantly more expensive than prison guards. Since both are paid by the state, and given my bias in favor of minimizing the state, I'm in favor of the state spending as little money as possible. That means paying prison guards instead of trial lawyers.

Thank you for providing information about the number of homicides and the number of criminals executed. Could you also provide your sources, by chance? Anyways, given that information and the nature of the modern "justice" system in this country, it seems readily apparent to me that capital punishment does not serve as an effective deterrent. Thus, there does not seem to be any use for the procedure.

- Rob

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: westcoastdog Although I'm a member of the ACLU, I think all males should have their DNA on file. The ACLU would fight tooth and nail to oppose this requirement, but the incidence of rape and perhaps other violent crimes would fall dramatically. All a woman would have to do is scratch her assailant, and his DNA would be under her finger nails.

Why stop with males? Lots of females commit crimes that can be solved through DNA.

Why stop with DNA? Why not just put a GPS chip in each of us at birth and track the movements of every person from birth until death? Or, why not just develop a technology that can read our thoughts and if anyone starts thinking bad things, we throw them in jail?

The prospect of putting every person's DNA "on file" is sickening and scary, and it should be to you.

Like George Orwell said when asked about his famous book, " `1984' might not come on time, but there's always 1985."

[Osborn F Enready]

WCD said: Although I'm a member of the ACLU, I think all males should have their DNA on file.

I say:
I can't even form a "reasonable" comment to make on statements as ridiculous, blind and DAMAGING as something like that. So what branch of the Nazi Party you belong to WCD?
Obviously the "card carrying member of the ACLU" excuse is a cover for your true intentions......

So which part of the FBI you working for now?

[westcoastdog]

For the critics of DNA collecting. The authorities have our finger prints on file. I must have been finger printed a dozen times during my life time by all levels of government. Give me an argument on how the government can abuse DNA information.

[Osborn F Enready]

Gee.... maybe using it to implicate you in something you had NOTHING to do with? :rolleyes:

As if it mattered. You can be swept away by Fatherland Sekurity at ANY time for no reason anyway. That would just make their job easier, and much more "legal appearing".


No thanks.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: westcoastdog BTW, life imprisonment is far cheaper than capital punishment. Reason: prison guards are a lot cheaper than lawyers.

Untrue.

The costs of keeping an inmate for 30+ years are millions more than killing him.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: westcoastdog For the critics of DNA collecting. The authorities have our finger prints on file. I must have been finger printed a dozen times during my life time by all levels of government. Give me an argument on how the government can abuse DNA information.

I've never been finger printed. My finger prints don't exist on any government computers.

Nor will my DNA.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Quote by: westcoastdog BTW, life imprisonment is far cheaper than capital punishment. Reason: prison guards are a lot cheaper than lawyers. Untrue. The costs of keeping an inmate for 30+ years are millions more than killing him.

I have to admit that, with all due respect, I'm rather skeptical of your assertion, Tman. Do you have any sources with which to back up your statement?

- Rob

[tman_ndsu08]

Common sense.

Kill a man = the costs of killing.

Keep a guy in prison 30 years = food, costs of running a prison x 30 (plus inflation).

[Autolykos]

Yet almost all death-row inmates are in jail for a long time before they're executed. For much of that time (if not most), they are constantly appealing their case. This means they have lawyers on retainer. The lawyers' services don't come cheap. Plus, I imagine that many times they are public defense lawyers, who are paid with tax money.

- Rob

[Rave7pt0]

I think I read that the cost per prisoner is 20K per year?

That's $600,000 for 30 years, no?

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Untrue. The costs of keeping an inmate for 30+ years are millions more than killing him.

Tman, you are wrong: -

http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Fina...20summary.html

From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the past 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one.

http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Fina...20summary.html

* The estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...scid=7&did=918


many more examples at: -

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...=7#From%20DPIC

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 I think I read that the cost per prisoner is 20K per year? That's $600,000 for 30 years, no?

What costs are those? Because I imagine a single prison guard makes more than that.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Chris the Chees Tman, you are wrong: - http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Fina...20summary.html From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the past 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one. http://www.njadp.org/forms/cost/Fina...20summary.html * The estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000). http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...scid=7&did=918 many more examples at: - http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...=7#From%20DPIC

Deathpenaltyinfo.org.


I mean...are you actually trying to be funny? Or are you serious?

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Deathpenaltyinfo.org. I mean...are you actually trying to be funny? Or are you serious?

Are you going to post an actual reply, or just post a menaingless one liner which adds nothing to the debate?

If you have a problem with my sources, then instead of making an inane one liner provide some alternative statistics and/or point out why my source is flawed.