Loyal to your country first or your party first?

[m5lange1]

These are questions that I bet most of us would answer differently if we answered them to ourselves than if we had to post and stand by our answers.

Do you feel the special prosecuters who went after Bill Clinton and Tom Delay were both motivated politically, both simply doing their job or was one (pick either) on a witch hunt while the other was purely motivated by justice?

Do you find yourself using the term "accountability" for those in the opposing party and "blame game" when referring to those in your own party?

Do you truly believe that those opposed to your party beliefs are anti American or bent on ruining the country while your own party is synonymous with true American values?

Do you believe Bush/Clinton has been honest and the other has not?

Do you think (Pick either side) Ed Shultz and Al Frankin are propagansists while Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are simply telling it like it is (or vis versa)?

When you hear an idea regarding US policy do you consider the source before considering the idea itself?

If you consider it treasonous to criticize the Presidents motivation for comitting io a conflict while we have troops under fire do you feel the same way for the troops in Iraq and the troops that were in Eastern Europe during the last administration?

Do you find yourself wanting to point out the differences in the above circumstances and find youself always justifying one party while blaming the other?

If you consider yourself a loyal American first, answer these honestly to yourself and reflect on it for a few minutes.

Apologies to the non-american participants since I am too unversed on foreign (to me) politics to address it here but I would guess it is not all that different elsewhere.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you feel the special prosecuters who went after Bill Clinton and Tom Delay were both motivated politically, both simply doing their job or was one (pick either) on a witch hunt while the other was purely motivated by justice?

I think they were politically motivated. The criminality only came into play as a tool to sieze power.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you find yourself using the term "accountability" for those in the opposing party and "blame game" when referring to those in your own party?

Absolutely not. I call all the people breaking the law criminals.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you truly believe that those opposed to your party beliefs are anti American or bent on ruining the country while your own party is synonymous with true American values?

Guilty as accused.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you believe Bush/Clinton has been honest and the other has not?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Whew, let me catch my breath. I'm not fresh off the turnip truck ya know.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you think (Pick either side) Ed Shultz and Al Frankin are propagansists while Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are simply telling it like it is (or vis versa)?

All of the above are paid propagandists, they just recieve their funds through different channels.

Quote by: m5lange1 When you hear an idea regarding US policy do you consider the source before considering the idea itself?

Absolutely not. However that is always factored into the equation at some point. It has to be with the track record the folks we are talking about have.

Quote by: m5lange1 If you consider it treasonous to criticize the Presidents motivation for comitting io a conflict while we have troops under fire do you feel the same way for the troops in Iraq and the troops that were in Eastern Europe during the last administration?

N/A

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you find yourself wanting to point out the differences in the above circumstances and find youself always justifying one party while blaming the other?

No. Being on the outside ( Libertarian ) looking in, all I see is corruption, deception, and unlawful behavior. Neither party represents the people, or the constitution so they are both part of the problem rather than the solution.

Quote by: m5lange1 If you consider yourself a loyal American first, answer these honestly to yourself and reflect on it for a few minutes.

This is a rationalization I make daily as my tolerance for assholia becomes less, and less. ( Of course I'm blaming all of the people you attempt to expose as partisan, and therefore, I believe, justified in being hostile towards the ignorant, apethetic, uninformed masses who are being lead around by their noses. )

Quote by: m5lange1 Apologies to the non-american participants since I am too unversed on foreign (to me) politics to address it here but I would guess it is not all that different elsewhere.

Me too, but I hope at least some of them understand we have our hands full here.


Do they really want to throw another ball into this juggling act?


My loyalty to the Libertarian party arises out of the fact that they are literally the only choice an American has if they believe in a strict interpretation of the constitution. The only other choice is the Constitution party, but they want God recognized in some official manor, and only work to further seperate an already divided group.


Do I suffer from party loyalty? Yes, but as you so eloquently stated " I truly believe that those opposed to my parties beliefs are anti American or bent on ruining the country while my own party is synonymous with true American values." I believe that to be true.

[PatrickHenry]

I like the Constitution party, but the Libertarians espouse most of my essential values, too. Democrats and Republicans are a smokescreen for one-party rule. Their squabbles are just family arguments. We are the outsiders and get no say-so in their disputes. The mud they throw wipes off, while they use real bullets on those who would restore Constitutional rule...

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: PatrickHenry The mud they throw wipes off, while they use real bullets on those who would restore Constitutional rule...

I wrote a proverb about the mud flingers.


"He who flings shit is standing in it."


That is largely how I see the two party disputes being resolved. Fling a lot around, and see what sticks. Unfortunately they don't seem to be aware that to have that constant ammo supply they pretty much have to be standing in it.


also...


"Man who shake table, collapse house of cards."

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: m5lange1 Loyal to your country first or your party first?

neither.

Do you feel the special prosecuters who went after Bill Clinton and Tom Delay were both motivated politically, both simply doing their job or was one (pick either) on a witch hunt while the other was purely motivated by justice?

I think they were both politically motivated. It doesn't help that both offered a very good target.

Do you find yourself using the term "accountability" for those in the opposing party and "blame game" when referring to those in your own party?

I have no party.

Do you truly believe that those opposed to your party beliefs are anti American or bent on ruining the country while your own party is synonymous with true American values?

See previous response. I think both parties are ruining the country, just in different ways. The democrats erode morality while the republicans destroy just about everything else.

Do you believe Bush/Clinton has been honest and the other has not?

They are both elected politicians and therefore both liars.

Do you think (Pick either side) Ed Shultz and Al Frankin are propagansists while Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are simply telling it like it is (or vis versa)?

I think when either is correct, they tell it like it is. There are plenty of very true things you can use to tear another's viewpoint apart. But when they are on unsure ground, I think they tell their respective audiences what they want to hear.

When you hear an idea regarding US policy do you consider the source before considering the idea itself?

Sometimes. If Halliburton had an idea for mideast peace, I think I would be just a little bit skeptical. It would be unwise not to be.

If you consider it treasonous to criticize the Presidents motivation for comitting io a conflict while we have troops under fire do you feel the same way for the troops in Iraq and the troops that were in Eastern Europe during the last administration?

It had better not be treasonous to criticize the president because I would be pretty guilty.

Do you find yourself wanting to point out the differences in the above circumstances and find youself always justifying one party while blaming the other?

nope. I think there are differences, but then again I detest both presidents for different reasons.

If you consider yourself a loyal American first, answer these honestly to yourself and reflect on it for a few minutes.

I don't.

[scriptor25]

My country. No questions, no debate.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: m5lange1 These are questions that I bet most of us would answer differently if we answered them to ourselves than if we had to post and stand by our answers.

You can count me out of that analysis.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you feel the special prosecuters who went after Bill Clinton and Tom Delay were both motivated politically, both simply doing their job or was one (pick either) on a witch hunt while the other was purely motivated by justice?

They were both politically motivated.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you find yourself using the term "accountability" for those in the opposing party and "blame game" when referring to those in your own party?

No, I call for accountability from all elected officials.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you truly believe that those opposed to your party beliefs are anti American or bent on ruining the country while your own party is synonymous with true American values?

I don't think any Rs or Ds are "bent on ruining the country". I do, however, think they range from being corrupt opportunists to populist panderers to seriously misguided idealists. And yes, I do think the LP's message of liberty is more in line with true American values than anything the Rs or Ds are saying.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you believe Bush/Clinton has been honest and the other has not?

No, I think they're all a bunch of liars.

Quote by: m5lange1 Do you think (Pick either side) Ed Shultz and Al Frankin are propagansists while Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are simply telling it like it is (or vis versa)?

No, I think they're all propegandists.

Quote by: m5lange1 When you hear an idea regarding US policy do you consider the source before considering the idea itself?

No, unless the policy itself is 60 pages long and I'm suspicious about the intended effect.

[underbear1]

Loyalty to my country comes first, I no longer feel any party loyalty,thanks to Coward Dean ending the GLBT outreach office at the DNC. I'm now leaning towards the Green Party via the Lavender caucus. I won't work for, or contribute to any candidates which aren't openly gay/lesbian. Should things become uglier for queers in America, I'll emigrate elsewhere, so even country loyalty has limits.

[phoenix_fire]

Isn't that discriminating?

[m5lange1]

Quote by: scriptor25 My country. No questions, no debate.

Well I respect your simplicity and directness.

As a matter of fact I think I can use this response. My kid asked me how whole countries could be bad. I paraphrase him here but basically he said "If the Nazis were bad guys how did they get a whole country to be on their side?"

Your response is a perfect example.

[underbear1]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Isn't that discriminating?

As in having discriminating taste? Nothing says I have to work for or contribute to any candidate, I freely CHOOSE to give to, and work for certain candidates, who all HAPPEN to be openly queer.

[Cephus]

Since I'm not remotely loyal to my party (I can hardly even consider it my party anymore), I have to go with country first. There just isn't a political party out there these days that comes even close to accurately representing me in any way, shape or form.