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Autolykos · Apr 7, 2006, 10:24 am

Hey guys,

I'd like to share with y'all a thought I've had lately. We've seen how illegal immigration has become an escalating problem in the United States. In response, the Bush administration and the Republican Party have floated various proposals on how to "handle" the problem. None of these proposals seem designed to actually curb the flow of illegal immigration. Rather, they seek to allow those who have already immigrated illegally to remain here (under amnesty/as "guest workers") and/or to relax the restrictions on legal immigration. The justification provided is that illegal immigrants "do jobs that Americans won't do".

On the other hand, Social Security has also become a growing problem in this country. The situation with Social Security is that the ratio of workers to retirees is quickly becoming tipped in favor of retirees. If this continues, the current system will ultimately become untenable and will literally go bankrupt. Obviously, this is a scenario that no politician wants to face. Here's where immigration comes in. It stands as fact that most people (and certainly most Latin Americans) come to this country to work. Those who do so are therefore going to be relatively young. Furthermore, all people -- citizens, legal immigrants, and even illegal immigrants -- who work in this country pay Social Security tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra..._United_States). Given these things, it does not take much to put two and two together.

Per the reasoning of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, if not also others, the tide of illegal immigration should not be stopped. In fact, it should be encouraged. Everything that these people are saying and doing stands in favor of this position. And it may so happen that they ulterior motives. The more younger workers that come into this country, the more Social Security taxes are being paid, and the longer the system can continue to operate. Plus, immigrants from Third-World countries cause wages to be depressed, since they are generally willing to work for less. It means keeping the money flowing to retirees and more cheap labor for big business. Overall, it's a win-win situation for the politicians.

Any thoughts?

- Rob

Cephus · Apr 7, 2006, 03:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Autolykos

None of these proposals seem designed to actually curb the flow of illegal immigration. Rather, they seek to allow those who have already immigrated illegally to remain here (under amnesty/as "guest workers") and/or to relax the restrictions on legal immigration. The justification provided is that illegal immigrants "do jobs that Americans won't do".

Of course not. 20 years ago, we gave amnesty to 4 million illegals and said never again. Now we're going to do it to 11 million illegals and say never again. In another 20 years, we'll be giving amnesty to 50 million illegals with the same rhetoric. They did a recent survey in Mexico and came to the conclusion that there are upwards of 70 million Mexicans who either plan to, or would like to, come to the US illegally.

When does the madness stop?

Technosoul · Apr 7, 2006, 09:07 pm

I would agree that immigration can help replenish the Soc Sec budget with more source cash.

What concerns some Amreicans is that other expendatures via taxes would counter-balance the income into the Soc Sec departments. The costs for emergency rooms and the greater useage for fire departments and so forth. More people = the need for more policemen, which comes from the taxpayer's wallet. You would be taxed to more schools and more teachers. It they get cars while working here you end up with more potholes in the street which taxpayers must repair. And so forth, you can imagine your own list of extra costs relative to the impact of a lot of people being added to our populated locations.

Now if you could save all that money spent on those extra taxes to take care of the influx of more immigration then you could add all that cash to your personal 'retirement savings fund' and have more then just soc security to live on when the time comes.

Remember that soc security is also taxable income and if taxes go up, you get less.

One other question, if someone paid in soc security taxes to the USA and then retired in Mexico could they still collect their monthy checks from social security? And if not, will that soon be a new law (effected out of sense of fairness)?

ghost_stalker · Apr 7, 2006, 11:06 pm

Immigration has major downpoints though. America loses additional money every year to illegals who send american money back to their homelands (economy losing money). If an illgal is willing to work for 50% of the legal pay poor americans could lose their low pay jobs to foriegners (increased unemployement). Also if a forigen person get sick and gets taken to an american hospital, the hospital has to treat the person even if they cannot or do not pay then the hospital asks for govermnet money to pay for this and the moeny is coming out of the pockets of tax paying americans to pay the bills for illegal foriegners who do not pay taxes.

Apr 7, 2006, 10:24 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	Immigration and Social Security Hey guys, I'd like to share with y'all a thought I've had lately. We've seen how illegal immigration has become an escalating problem in the United States. In response, the Bush administration and the Republican Party have floated various proposals on how to "handle" the problem. None of these proposals seem designed to actually curb the flow of illegal immigration. Rather, they seek to allow those who have already immigrated illegally to remain here (under amnesty/as "guest workers") and/or to relax the restrictions on legal immigration. The justification provided is that illegal immigrants "do jobs that Americans won't do". On the other hand, Social Security has also become a growing problem in this country. The situation with Social Security is that the ratio of workers to retirees is quickly becoming tipped in favor of retirees. If this continues, the current system will ultimately become untenable and will literally go bankrupt. Obviously, this is a scenario that no politician wants to face. Here's where immigration comes in. It stands as fact that most people (and certainly most Latin Americans) come to this country to work. Those who do so are therefore going to be relatively young. Furthermore, all people -- citizens, legal immigrants, and even illegal immigrants -- who work in this country pay Social Security tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra..._United_States). Given these things, it does not take much to put two and two together. Per the reasoning of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, if not also others, the tide of illegal immigration should not be stopped. In fact, it should be encouraged. Everything that these people are saying and doing stands in favor of this position. And it may so happen that they ulterior motives. The more younger workers that come into this country, the more Social Security taxes are being paid, and the longer the system can continue to operate. Plus, immigrants from Third-World countries cause wages to be depressed, since they are generally willing to work for less. It means keeping the money flowing to retirees and more cheap labor for big business. Overall, it's a win-win situation for the politicians. Any thoughts? - Rob

Apr 7, 2006, 09:07 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	I would agree that immigration can help replenish the Soc Sec budget with more source cash. What concerns some Amreicans is that other expendatures via taxes would counter-balance the income into the Soc Sec departments. The costs for emergency rooms and the greater useage for fire departments and so forth. More people = the need for more policemen, which comes from the taxpayer's wallet. You would be taxed to more schools and more teachers. It they get cars while working here you end up with more potholes in the street which taxpayers must repair. And so forth, you can imagine your own list of extra costs relative to the impact of a lot of people being added to our populated locations. Now if you could save all that money spent on those extra taxes to take care of the influx of more immigration then you could add all that cash to your personal 'retirement savings fund' and have more then just soc security to live on when the time comes. Remember that soc security is also taxable income and if taxes go up, you get less. One other question, if someone paid in soc security taxes to the USA and then retired in Mexico could they still collect their monthy checks from social security? And if not, will that soon be a new law (effected out of sense of fairness)?

Apr 7, 2006, 11:06 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
ghost_stalker Igneous Magma Location: Aurora, Co Posts: 353	Immigration has major downpoints though. America loses additional money every year to illegals who send american money back to their homelands (economy losing money). If an illgal is willing to work for 50% of the legal pay poor americans could lose their low pay jobs to foriegners (increased unemployement). Also if a forigen person get sick and gets taken to an american hospital, the hospital has to treat the person even if they cannot or do not pay then the hospital asks for govermnet money to pay for this and the moeny is coming out of the pockets of tax paying americans to pay the bills for illegal foriegners who do not pay taxes.