Poll: Majority of Mexicans See US As 'Exploiter'

[leftcider]

Poll: Majority of Mexicans See US As 'Exploiter'

http://zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12882

Quote by: zogby Why is the United States a wealthier nation than Mexico? A new Zogby poll asked Mexican and American citizens that question and others. Seventy percent of Americans said the U.S. is wealthier because there is plenty of opportunity and work available in the United States, but 62 percent of Mexicans said the U.S. is wealthier because it exploits others, the Zogby poll said. As for why Mexico is poorer, 38 percent of Mexicans blamed corruption and 36 percent blamed government policies. Likewise, 36 percent of Americans said Mexico is poorer because of government policies and 35 percent blamed corruption. The Zogby poll examined how Americans and Mexicans regard each other. It found that 62 percent of Americans believe a strong relationship between the two countries is important for America's future; but only 52 percent of Mexicans said it was important for their country to have a good relationship with the United States. Immigration Both Americans and Mexicans agreed that the U.S. economy benefits from the labor of immigrant Mexicans. Nevertheless, a majority of Americans want U.S. lawmakers to crack down on illegal immigration. Sixty-two percent of Americans said they favor "more restrictive" immigration policies, the Zogby poll said. Fifty-seven percent of Americans said they would favor a U.S. economic development program for Mexico if Mexico agreed to accept more controls on immigration. But 53 percent of Mexicans opposed that idea. And while 69 percent of Americans oppose a U.S. proposal to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border, 90 percent of Mexicans oppose the idea. Personal attributes On a personal level, 84 percent of Americans said they held a positive view of the Mexican people, but only 36 percent of Mexicans had a positive view of Americans. Other findings: -- 78 percent of Americans consider Mexicans hard-working, but only 26 percent of Mexicans consider Americans hard-working. -- 18 percent of Americans consider Mexicans racist, while 73 percent of Mexicans see American as racist. -- 42 percent of Americans see Mexicans as honest, while only 16 percent of Mexicans see Americans as honest.

I was especially surprised to read the section on personal views Mexicans have about Americans. Where does the animosity of Mexicans towards the US stem from?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: leftcider Poll: Majority of Mexicans See US As 'Exploiter' http://zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12882 I was especially surprised to read the section on personal views Mexicans have about Americans. Where does the animosity of Mexicans towards the US stem from?

Gee, I just can't imagine where any animosity would come from. Mexican politicians continue to pimp the poorest of their own people off to work for slave labor wages here in the United States, and Americans continue to view illegal immigrants as nothing more than cheap labor to be exploited for minimal wages. American business gets cheap labor, and Mexican politicians are not only free from funding their own social programs, but they also get to skim off money from the billions that the "guest workers" send home. The views of the immigrants themselves or the citizens, have no weight at all with the politicians back home in either country. Where could that animosity possibly be coming from??

[RVonse]

It is clear from the poll that the Mexicans are coming to the US just for the money. They do not really like Americans. It also appears that Mexican's, in general, have no desire to speak our English language nor incorporate any of our diverse culture.

American citizens need to wake up or their children will be speaking spanish and saluting the Mexican flag.

[Technosoul]

Wonder how many Americans (white upper class) would vote positive to that question "are Americans honest?".

Not speaking English seems to be one of the main reasons Americans do not like Mexicans (and for that matter anyone who does not speak English in their presence), the reasons for that dislike is something worth exploring.

I personally did not see anything unexpected in that poll and felt the answers did reflect what I think are the current opinons of both countries.

Of course, the point of such a poll is what do you do with that information, and are any of the opinons just missperceptions? And by what means can those missperceptions be corrected?

Is President Fox in our henhouse stealing our chickens - aaa oo lee. (the last word is international).

Come on folks - why can't we just be friends, enough is enough, peace out.

[RVonse]

Quote by: Technosoul Not speaking English seems to be one of the main reasons Americans do not like Mexicans (and for that matter anyone who does not speak English in their presence), the reasons for that dislike is something worth exploring.

Speaking for myself, its not that I dislike them for not speaking English when they enter but that I dislike them for not wanting to learn English. And it has nothing to do with whether or not English is a better or worse language than Spanish. If I went to France I would not expect the frenchmen to speak English and I would plan to learn how to speak french. The burdon of learning another language (and it is a big burdon) should always be on the individual that immigrates and not the rest of the population. Thats how it was with my ancestors (who spoke German) when they moved to America. Why do the Mexicans get a pass here, its the tail wagging the dog.

Quote by: Technosoul Come on folks - why can't we just be friends, enough is enough, peace out.

Because they are invading the southern boarder of the U.S. and slowly but surely taking over my country. The cheap labor is not worth any of this at all.

[Osborn F Enready]

The whole globe, except Americans, see the United States as an "exploiter". Even some Americans, such as myself would alledge the same.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready The whole globe, except Americans, see the United States as an "exploiter". Even some Americans, such as myself would alledge the same.

I agree. In addition, a lot of Americans see such exploitation as either for the good of the exploited, or else proper payment for some "good thing" we have done for them.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Zeebadee I agree. In addition, a lot of Americans see such exploitation as either for the good of the exploited, or else proper payment for some "good thing" we have done for them.

You forgot to mention how that is fundamentally misguided, and delusional.

[brien]

Quote by: leftcider Poll: Majority of Mexicans See US As 'Exploiter' http://zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12882 I was especially surprised to read the section on personal views Mexicans have about Americans. Where does the animosity of Mexicans towards the US stem from?

The amount of mistrust and misunderstanding between Mexico and the US is staggering to the mind of the ordinary citizen. Furthermore, it is propagated by three groups. The politicians, the media, and the illegals themselves.

Poltically correct politicians call illegal aliens "guest workers" and say they do jobs that no other American will perform. No wonder there is confusion there.

If someone illegally enters your home, do you call them a guest? Not hardly. When someone works illegally for a company for wage levels that are considered below "minimum", are they not harming the economy. If these workers were not available to companies that wish to exploit their condition, would not wages rise and afford legitimate citizens jobs at a higher wage, even above the minimum wage? No wonder these Americans are confused, even angry.

Politically correct politicians call illegal aliens "undocumented workers" which implies that there are "documented workers" when there is nothing of the sort. Besides a social secuirty card, which illegal aliens have, what other documents do you have to provide to work in the US? No wonder ordinary American are confused.

Does it make sense when politicians refuse to control the borders yet all rise to the political occasion when the port terminals are "threatened" by foreign ownership? No wonder ordinary Americans are confused.

Does it make sense when people who legally enter the US and wait 10 years to become citizens while those who illegally enter are offered instant citizenship? This encourages people to enter the US illegally because they will become citizens faster than those who enter the US legally. No wonder there is confusion and anger.

Illegals come to the US and demonstrate by the thousands against oppression here in the US. Why don't they protest their civil rights violations and job conditions in Mexico which forced them to come here in the first place? The illegals march using the flag of Mexico as their banner while using the flag of the US to denigrate the US. The illegals refuse to learn English to better assimilate into the US society, yet they continue to complain about discrimination. No wonder ordinary American are confused and resentful.

The media complain that the illegals are not treated fairly in their work efforts. This is simply because the illegals are not coming to the US taking their jobs for half their wages. If the illegals came to the US, and took the jobs of the media at half their pay, they would certainly sing a different tune. Hypocrites. No wonder ordinary Americans are confused.

The media says the illegals take "jobs that no one else will take". This is merely a question of wages and labor supply. Eliminate the illegals and wages will rise to a level acceptable to the current labor supply. Simple economics. No wonder ordinary Americans are confused.

Politicians accuse people of racism who won't accept the illegals. They are calling Asians, and Eastern Indians racists because it is they who come and enter the country legally. This is a bold insult to these people who have waited 10 years to become citizens. Blacks are called racists who don't accept illegals who do a job the blacks would do if the wages reflected the true wage levels according to the legal labor supply No wonder these ordinary Americans are confused and cry foul.

And we wonder why there is so much suspicion and confusion on the behalf of ordinary Americans. I think it is clear to me. We don't get the truth from the media. We don't get the truth from the politicians. We don't get the truth from the illegals.

[grandpa]

Quote by: brien The amount of mistrust and misunderstanding between Mexico and the US is staggering to the mind of the ordinary citizen. Furthermore, it is propagated by three groups. The politicians, the media, and the illegals themselves. Poltically correct politicians call illegal aliens "guest workers" and say they do jobs that no other American will perform. No wonder there is confusion there. If someone illegally enters your home, do you call them a guest? Not hardly. When someone works illegally for a company for wage levels that are considered below "minimum", are they not harming the economy. If these workers were not available to companies that wish to exploit their condition, would not wages rise and afford legitimate citizens jobs at a higher wage, even above the minimum wage? No wonder these Americans are confused, even angry. Politically correct politicians call illegal aliens "undocumented workers" which implies that there are "documented workers" when there is nothing of the sort. Besides a social secuirty card, which illegal aliens have, what other documents do you have to provide to work in the US? No wonder ordinary American are confused. Does it make sense when politicians refuse to control the borders yet all rise to the political occasion when the port terminals are "threatened" by foreign ownership? No wonder ordinary Americans are confused. Does it make sense when people who legally enter the US and wait 10 years to become citizens while those who illegally enter are offered instant citizenship? This encourages people to enter the US illegally because they will become citizens faster than those who enter the US legally. No wonder there is confusion and anger. Illegals come to the US and demonstrate by the thousands against oppression here in the US. Why don't they protest their civil rights violations and job conditions in Mexico which forced them to come here in the first place? The illegals march using the flag of Mexico as their banner while using the flag of the US to denigrate the US. The illegals refuse to learn English to better assimilate into the US society, yet they continue to complain about discrimination. No wonder ordinary American are confused and resentful. The media complain that the illegals are not treated fairly in their work efforts. This is simply because the illegals are not coming to the US taking their jobs for half their wages. If the illegals came to the US, and took the jobs of the media at half their pay, they would certainly sing a different tune. Hypocrites. No wonder ordinary Americans are confused. The media says the illegals take "jobs that no one else will take". This is merely a question of wages and labor supply. Eliminate the illegals and wages will rise to a level acceptable to the current labor supply. Simple economics. No wonder ordinary Americans are confused. Politicians accuse people of racism who won't accept the illegals. They are calling Asians, and Eastern Indians racists because it is they who come and enter the country legally. This is a bold insult to these people who have waited 10 years to become citizens. Blacks are called racists who don't accept illegals who do a job the blacks would do if the wages reflected the true wage levels according to the legal labor supply No wonder these ordinary Americans are confused and cry foul. And we wonder why there is so much suspicion and confusion on the behalf of ordinary Americans. I think it is clear to me. We don't get the truth from the media. We don't get the truth from the politicians. We don't get the truth from the illegals.

Stop legally categorizing them as "illegal aliens." Problem solved.
That's how you make them into "ordinary Americans" (or whatever term you used).
As for them not learning English, I don't care. But I should point out it's easier to learn English if you're not fearing the INS and others who are afraid of impoverished foreigners. xenophobia isn't solving a problem--it's creating one.
I personally distrust any government that calls a person "illegal."

Grandpa h.

[Morgan_Freeman]

62% of Mexicans say the US is an exploiter...

and the other 38% are scrambling over the border trying to get in.

[brien]

Quote by: grandpa Stop legally categorizing them as "illegal aliens." Problem solved. That's how you make them into "ordinary Americans" (or whatever term you used). As for them not learning English, I don't care. But I should point out it's easier to learn English if you're not fearing the INS and others who are afraid of impoverished foreigners. xenophobia isn't solving a problem--it's creating one. I personally distrust any government that calls a person "illegal." Grandpa h.

I don't catagorize them as anything but people. They are in the US illegally. This makes them citizens? Hardly. Call them whatever you want but they are in this country illegally. This is a FACT.

Fearing the INS???? I suppose that is why 500,000 people were in LA over the weekend. They were all afraid of the INS picking them up and taking them back to Mexico, eh?

You may not care if they learn English but my point was that "ordinary Americans" seek to see immigrants learn the native language. This promotes acceptance into American society. America was not set up as a confederation of small cultures all existing seperately. America was setup as a nation speaking one language and sharing common values to protect everyone under the constituitonal government that promoted and protected freedom and individualism in the common culture. Sadly, this is no longer true.

I don't believe that "ordinary Americans" are xenophobic. I believe they welcome legal immigrants to the USA. It is only people with an agenda who whip up xenopphobia.

Since you distrust the government, of which I am no fan, then you advocate open borders with no legal means to control immigration? The government, many people, and their idiodic politicians a were all up in arms over the "port deal" recently, and you think that this issue is any different? The only difference is the hypocricy of those who aren't consistent in their application of the laws of importation, be it people or cargo. What is outrageous is that all of these people think cargo importation is more serious than illegal immigration.

[grandpa]

Quote by: brien I don't catagorize them as anything but people. They are in the US illegally. This makes them citizens? Hardly. Call them whatever you want but they are in this country illegally. This is a FACT. .

You categorize them as "Illegal" people.

Quote by: brien Fearing the INS???? I suppose that is why 500,000 people were in LA over the weekend. They were all afraid of the INS picking them up and taking them back to Mexico, eh?

Yes, they are. That's why they joined together against a perceived threat. They realize it's more difficult for the INS to target people who have some group solidarity.

Quote by: brien You may not care if they learn English but my point was that "ordinary Americans" seek to see immigrants learn the native language. This promotes acceptance into American society.

No, acceptance promotes acceptance. Dismantling their own cultural identity with roots in language is not accepting who they are. That is accepting who rich, powerful, English speaking Americans want them to be. They want Mexicans to understand the orders being barked at them. I personally am not offended if I hear someone speaking Spanish in America, even if that's the only language they speak. It's a very minor problem and life goes on.

Quote by: brien America was not set up as a confederation of small cultures all existing seperately. America was setup as a nation speaking one language and sharing common values to protect everyone under the constituitonal government that promoted and protected freedom and individualism in the common culture. Sadly, this is no longer true.

Yeah, freedom and individualism to own slaves, commit genocide, launch foreign invasions, exploit people for maximum profit, hinder free speech and freedom from and of religion. And how about the freedom to mandate signing with the selective service, mandate currency, property taxes and freedom to live under an overall climate of fear, dread and dispassionate panic?
Those are freedoms Americans historically have enjoyed.

Quote by: brien I don't believe that "ordinary Americans" are xenophobic. I believe they welcome legal immigrants to the USA. It is only people with an agenda who whip up xenopphobia.

I believe xenophobia exists largely because of the "illegal alien" status.
It's mere existence signifies a fear of outsiders coming in.

Quote by: brien Since you distrust the government, of which I am no fan, then you advocate open borders with no legal means to control immigration? The government, many people, and their idiodic politicians a were all up in arms over the "port deal" recently, and you think that this issue is any different? The only difference is the hypocricy of those who aren't consistent in their application of the laws of importation, be it people or cargo. What is outrageous is that all of these people think cargo importation is more serious than illegal immigration.

No, people can be inspected when they enter or leave an airplane or an arbitrary border. But that by no means necessitates granting that person an "illegal" status.

Grandpa h.

[whoracle]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman 62% of Mexicans say the US is an exploiter... and the other 38% are scrambling over the border trying to get in.

no matter how racist that may seem to those of you bleeding hearts hoping to save every last slug on the planet (which is crap by the way...why do people insist that foreign countries need help when there are starving children three blocks from any one of you in the US)...i'd say morgan is being - if anything - generous on the latter numbers.

if they were so concerned about the exploitation of their people, there would be a lot less of them here.

[grandpa]

Quote by: whoracle no matter how racist that may seem to those of you bleeding hearts hoping to save every last slug on the planet (which is crap by the way...why do people insist that foreign countries need help when there are starving children three blocks from any one of you in the US)...i'd say morgan is being - if anything - generous on the latter numbers. if they were so concerned about the exploitation of their people, there would be a lot less of them here.

They are exploited in Mexico and the US. That's their point.
And this is not a matter of saving everyone on the planet, but ending the systematic classification of people as "illegal."

Grandpa h.

[whoracle]

well if you enter the country against it's current laws....i'd say that qualifies as illegal.

or did i miss something in the definition of the word....

[rmnunez]

The personal attitudes are amusing for the reaction from united statians, it seems people north of the border are as incapable of recognizing their shortcomings as Mexicans are their own. This doesn't surprise me.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: rmnunez The personal attitudes are amusing for the reaction from united statians, it seems people north of the border are as incapable of recognizing their shortcomings as Mexicans are their own. This doesn't surprise me.

Care to elaborate a little, so the rest of know what you're talking about?

[brien]

Quote by: grandpa You categorize them as "Illegal" people. Yes, they are. That's why they joined together against a perceived threat. They realize it's more difficult for the INS to target people who have some group solidarity. No, acceptance promotes acceptance. Dismantling their own cultural identity with roots in language is not accepting who they are. That is accepting who rich, powerful, English speaking Americans want them to be. They want Mexicans to understand the orders being barked at them. I personally am not offended if I hear someone speaking Spanish in America, even if that's the only language they speak. It's a very minor problem and life goes on. Yeah, freedom and individualism to own slaves, commit genocide, launch foreign invasions, exploit people for maximum profit, hinder free speech and freedom from and of religion. And how about the freedom to mandate signing with the selective service, mandate currency, property taxes and freedom to live under an overall climate of fear, dread and dispassionate panic? Those are freedoms Americans historically have enjoyed. I believe xenophobia exists largely because of the "illegal alien" status. It's mere existence signifies a fear of outsiders coming in. No, people can be inspected when they enter or leave an airplane or an arbitrary border. But that by no means necessitates granting that person an "illegal" status. Grandpa h.

Gramps: Your anti American rants expose your anti american agenda. You are the kind of person that will find 5 ways to NOT make something happen. Postive people find 5 ways to MAKE something happen.

I never catagorized them as illegal people. YOU did. I wrote they were in this country illegally.

No one ever said America was perfect. However, your whole anti American argument blows up in your face when we see more than 11 milllion people FIGHTING to STAY in the America you are so quick to denigrate. The illegal immigrants ACTIONS defy and prove your rhetoric WRONG. If this country is so bad, as you define it, why are they fighting to come and stay here? Their actions prove your rhetoric WRONG. No one is forcing them to come here. It is that simple. They come here through illegal means and come here VOLUNTARILY. The old axiom "actions speak louder than words" is relevant here.

I don't care one iota if people speak Spanish. I speak that language. The point is they should speak ENGLISH as well. It is NOT about them speaking Spanish, it is about them speaking ENGLISH. A English requirement will help them assimilate and function in the AMERICAN culture easier and the end result will be benefical for them You don't seem to get this point. Fine, so be it.

No one is asking them to dismantle their culture. Immigrants who have come here LEGALLY in the past centuries didn't dismantle their cultures. The Hasidic Jews of NYC have not dismantled their culture yet they speak and understand both Yiddish and English. They function in American society, are accepted in American society, and still retain their beautiful culture. You have to ask yourself why they are successful and the illegals aren't. Comapre the Hasidics to the illegal Mexican immigrant and you will understand the situation. The answers are obvious to logical and reasonable people. So don't give me that line of bullshit that Americans wish to deny the Latins, or any other ethnic group, their language or culture. This is pure rhetoric and is a LIE.

And finally, when this country was founded in the 18th century, none of which you have cited about it was true, except slavery, an institution that was acccepted practice around the entire world. America had the courage to dissovle the institution well before many other countries did so in the 19th Century. So to raise this red herring is irrelevant to the argument at hand.

And finally, if you can find me a better and more progressive place to live than the one you portray, I would be more than happy to recommend the illegals go there to live and work. PROBLEM SOLVED. Somehow, I don't think they will listen to that line of bullshit.

So why don't you go out, rent a hall, and advertise what you have said in your post about illegals in America. Tell them about the America you have posted here. Then come back and tell us how many peole showed up, and how many people actually followed your advice that can be concluded from your rhetoric. I can't wait to see your results.

Tell them exactly what you wrote here about the US. These are your words:

Yeah, freedom and individualism to own slaves, commit genocide, launch foreign invasions, exploit people for maximum profit, hinder free speech and freedom from and of religion. And how about the freedom to mandate signing with the selective service, mandate currency, property taxes and freedom to live under an overall climate of fear, dread and dispassionate panic?
Those are freedoms Americans historically have enjoyed


Let's see how many people will take your rhetoric to heart. I can't wait.

[brien]

Quote by: grandpa They are exploited in Mexico and the US. That's their point. And this is not a matter of saving everyone on the planet, but ending the systematic classification of people as "illegal." Grandpa h.

It is only you that classify these people as "illegal people". They are illegal imigrants who are in the United States ILLEGALLY because they have not entered the country under the auspicies and protection of the laws of the United States. What is so difficult to understand about this?

Comparison: The speed limit for drivers on I-55 is 65 MPH. A car is clocked at 85 MPH. The law cites them for speeding. They are a driver who has broken the law. They are in violation of the law. While he/she is driving at 85 MPH he/she is "illegally operating his/her motor vehicle. You can't call them legal operators while they are speeding, can you?

So you argument that some are calling the illegal immigrants "illegal people" is specious and used by you to twist the argument into a irrelevant realm of logic. Sorry, I don't buy it.