The Failure of Criminal Justice

[Nameless77]

My question is what is the point of prison. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

Originally, I think that punishment was meant to deter crime. This was the age of corporal and capital punishment. People were very afraid of breaking the law because of the consequences.

At some point, we moved away from corporal punishment in the Western world because of the idea of rehabilitation of criminals. Now, I'll be the first to say that I think criminals can be rehabilitated in most cases, but I have a real hard time believing that it happens in prison in the US these days. So if prison isn't rehabilitating, is it at least a deterant? I don't believe it is.

So I guess my point is, what approach should we be taking, rehabilitation or deterent? Whichever one, how should it work? Because I think we can all agree that the system in place now is simply not working.

[finley31]

Prison should be able to be both. I feel the problem lies in the way the justice system has morphed into a single path system, i.e. any crime - same jail. I think a large scale distributor of drugs needs a different jail experience than the kid nailed with a personal stash. A assualt on a stranger compared to the guy who finds his wife in bed with the neighbor same violence different motives. A man who can't pay his child support because his car broke down and he lost his job, a working poor who cant afford insure, or the ticket and it goes to warrant.........these people would be sent to the same jail as a carjacker..........therein lies the problem...people who commit victimless crime should be allowed to perform work for the state,county,city to pay off there debt. Mental health counseling would also be a proper alternative(again using labor if they couldnt pay) Both of these concepts would be cheaper and more productive than incarcerations. It would also reduce prison violence by reducing overcrowded conditions.
Also children who are refugees into this country......if they aren't sent back instantly they are held in juvenile prisons and lets not forget prisons are great schools.....if you are studying how to be a criminal.

[Gorgo]

The reason for the prison system is to lock up poor people, especially poor people of color.

There is no rehabilitation any more.

What would be the reason for punishing people? Does that stop crime?

I think we need to warehouse people who are a danger to others until we can figure out how to rehabilitate them, but most of the people in prison are not dangerous. At least, not until they went to prison.

[PatrickHenry]

I can see three purposes for the establishment of criminal justice:

1) to punish those who have injured another. If you hurt someone else, society will hurt you back, on their behalf. This way we hope to avoid "frontier justice", ie. vigilantism. Injuring yourself doesn't count.

2) to rehabilitate wrongdoers who need to be corrected in their misguided behaviors. This is known as behavior modification. IMO prison doesn't do a very good job of this.

3) to warehouse the incorrigible. If you fail to respond to society's urgent efforts to reform your bad habits, they keep you away from your potential victims.

So, Punishment, Rehab, Warehousing.

These aren't the only options for these purposes.

Punishment could be simpler and less destructive of lives if our society did not deem corporal punishment "cruel and unusual." What I mean is, that some offenders could be punished by a public whipping or the stocks, subjecting them to scorn from their personal relationships, but getting it over with. Then they could get back to their lives and try to "live it down."

Rehab is most effective in a professional setting, by using scientific or spiritual means of sending wrongdoers in a more beneficial direction.

Warehousing is a problem and some groups in history have dispensed with it for long term miscreants and simply eliminated those who were regarded as incorrigible. I'm not advocating the death penalty, but it is one alternative to the long term expense in keeping prisoners without any chance of parole.

[BendOverDemocrats]

The failure of parents is more the reason for the criminals. The justice system is only the best man can do to make people pay for their criminal acts. If we could do better things to solve crime, I think we would.

When harsher things are tried, groups like the aclu come in to make sure the criminal is pampered and the good people are slammed.

It isn't a perfect system, that is for sure.

[PatrickHenry]

The trouble with the present prison system is that most of those locked up are for drug offenses.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908043.html
And those are arguably self-destructive but not hurtful to any other vicitms. Why should people be jailed for self-vicitmization? It is costly for the taxpayer and little good comes of the drug war.

[Dieval]

The trouble with the present prison system is that most of those locked up are for drug offenses.

And how do a lot of these prisoners for drug offenses get their money to buy the drugs?

[Gorgo]

And how do a lot of these prisoners for drug offenses get their money to buy the drugs?

I don't know. Are you making a statement here that all drug users are stealing? What is the basis for this statement?

[IndieC]

No, drug users don't necessarily steal, but the simple fact that they are buying the drugs means they are supporting the exploitation of poor people who have no other choice in South America and other places. They are therefore accessories to exploitation, and i believe that anyone should be imprisoned for that offence.

As for the money, i think that a lot of drug users, not necessarily the majority, are people who earn their money through perfectly legitimate means.

[PatrickHenry]

And how do a lot of these prisoners for drug offenses get their money to buy the drugs?

Hey, Dieval! Long time, no see! As for the druggie prisoners, likely most of 'em are small time street dealers. I don't really know where the money comes from. I know that a lotta the drugs are imported by criminals connected with the CIA... I don't think a big CIA-connected smuggler has ever been imprisoned, except for maybe Noriega after he started getting uncooperative...

[Rave7pt0]

People steal money to buy shoes too. Let's outlaw shoes.

Edit:

As for exploitation... I think that's mostly a problem 1st world rich people came up with. Oh no, poor working conditions! Let's "free" all those people from the only job they have available, and make sure they can't support their families. It's a larger issue than most people who have the luxery of sitting in front of their computers realize.

One way to improve the working conditions for them is to legitimize the industry. Call me crazy.

[Gorgo]

poor people who have no other choice in South America and other places

The reason poor people are poor is because of U.S. policy mainly. Let's put the real criminals - the WTO, the CIA, the NED, etc., instead of locking up black people for no good reason.